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Old 05-16-2025 | 04:12 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Spoilers Deploy
The other reason is …. If a crew gets sideways with a foreign government, looking professional is highly advantageous.
Oh yeah....gee I never thought of that. That's probably why all the ACMI carriers who go to shady foreign countries require that.............Oh Thats right They DON'T
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Old 05-16-2025 | 05:00 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by 11atsomto
Oh yeah....gee I never thought of that. That's probably why all the ACMI carriers who go to shady foreign countries require that.............Oh Thats right They DON'T


Their choice, their attitude.

recall the NWA airbus pilots that fell asleep ? They made life much harder on themselves with a bad attitude.

Problem in this current culture of hyper individualism, one clown can ruin it for everyone.
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Old 05-16-2025 | 05:04 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by 11atsomto
Oh yeah....gee I never thought of that. That's probably why all the ACMI carriers who go to shady foreign countries require that.............Oh Thats right They DON'T
well the good news is Starbucks baristas agree with you so you can walk out and join their fight. They are willing to loose their job over having to wear a black Tee Shirt, how about you?
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Old 05-16-2025 | 05:44 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Spoilers Deploy
Their choice, their attitude.

recall the NWA airbus pilots that fell asleep ? They made life much harder on themselves with a bad attitude.

Problem in this current culture of hyper individualism, one clown can ruin it for everyone.
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
well the good news is Starbucks baristas agree with you so you can walk out and join their fight. They are willing to loose their job over having to wear a black Tee Shirt, how about you?
Hahaha nice one guys. I'm merely pointing out spoilers deploy argument about looking professional in the case of trouble with a foreign government is pretty weak sauce. The best prevention technique for that would be adherence to FOM and WOM.

The NWA pilots fell asleep. Sort of a fatigue issue NOT a Uniform issue. HUGE difference

MY views on our policy is not a bad attitude it is an opinion about something that we are often THE ONLY (spoilers mentioned Delta's policy) carrier to still have. So I am merely drawing attention to the fact that it really isn't Industry standard anymore.

What I have learned here is that the White Shoe Image of our uniform policy is something that is very sacred to many of our pilots.......and if serving on the uniform committee rest assured that the HAT will never disappear ...I would always protect your right to wear it. It's just that it should not be forced on others. Thats ALL.
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Old 05-16-2025 | 05:51 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by 11atsomto
Hahaha nice one guys. I'm merely pointing out spoilers deploy argument about looking professional in the case of trouble with a foreign government is pretty weak sauce. The best prevention technique for that would be adherence to FOM and WOM.

The NWA pilots fell asleep. Sort of a fatigue issue NOT a Uniform issue. HUGE difference

MY views on our policy is not a bad attitude it is an opinion about something that we are often THE ONLY (spoilers mentioned Delta's policy) carrier to still have. So I am merely drawing attention to the fact that it really isn't Industry standard anymore.

What I have learned here is that the White Shoe Image of our uniform policy is something that is very sacred to many of our pilots.......and if serving on the uniform committee rest assured that the HAT will never disappear ...I would always protect your right to wear it. It's just that it should not be forced on others. Thats ALL.
I hope you can bring change but until you do the uniform is the uniform and why anyone spends anytime complaining about it is a waste of time.
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Old 05-16-2025 | 06:57 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by 11atsomto
I’m curious about what you think about NATCA? Have you ever done a tour of a tower or a TRACON?

Did you feel less safe once you saw everyone in there dressed like they were going to Costco?
Nervous flyers never see controllers, ever.

My shop lets us wear board shorts and flip flops on cargo-only flights. But they seem to have some strong preferences for image out in public in the terminal.
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Old 05-16-2025 | 07:20 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by 11atsomto
Hahaha nice one guys. I'm merely pointing out spoilers deploy argument about looking professional in the case of trouble with a foreign government is pretty weak sauce. The best prevention technique for that would be adherence to FOM and WOM.

The NWA pilots fell asleep. Sort of a fatigue issue NOT a Uniform issue. HUGE difference

MY views on our policy is not a bad attitude it is an opinion about something that we are often THE ONLY (spoilers mentioned Delta's policy) carrier to still have. So I am merely drawing attention to the fact that it really isn't Industry standard anymore.

What I have learned here is that the White Shoe Image of our uniform policy is something that is very sacred to many of our pilots.......and if serving on the uniform committee rest assured that the HAT will never disappear ...I would always protect your right to wear it. It's just that it should not be forced on others. Thats ALL.
your comments are puerile

your year of hire?
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Old 05-16-2025 | 07:30 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by 11atsomto
If you talk to a member ot the public who mentions anything about their pilot’s appearance it will only be one of two things:

1.They will mention if said Pilot is obese.

2. They will mention if their pilot was anything BUT a white male.

There will be no mention of short or long sleeve, hat or no hat, blazer or no blazer, sweater or all weather jacket. They notice the epaulets but they don’t realize that it correlates to any type of hierarchy.

They just Don’t ok……that’s fine that you take pride in your appearance, and I can’t say that I don’t, nor do encourage I anyone to not adhere to uniform policy.


I’m curious about what you think about NATCA? Have you ever done a tour of a tower or a TRACON?

Did you feel less safe once you saw everyone in there dressed like they were going to Costco?
The traveling public doesn’t visit tracons, or tower cabs, or ARTCCs.
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Old 05-16-2025 | 07:42 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Peoplemvr
The traveling public doesn’t visit tracons, or tower cabs, or ARTCCs.
one of the most amazing accomplishments of airline flying is two pilots who have never met before can do so at 5am with complex issues such weather and maintenance and fly a high performance jet across the country. How is trust high level with two strangers?

Trust is “artificial” with the commonality of the FM/FOM/UPA, company ID and uniform.

if one of dudes at 5am was using the wrong FM something would be suspect.

This is why pilots who don’t care about the uniform or have a negative attitude create resentment.
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Old 05-16-2025 | 07:45 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Spoilers Deploy
International trips require the coat and hat in summer. Its hot AF wearing that…

Delta doesn’t…. After a 8+ hour flight… the Deltoids look like crap.. the “I slept in my clothes and haven’t been home in 24h” look.

United pilots look professional. So there is that.

The other reason is …. If a crew gets sideways with a foreign government, looking professional is highly advantageous.

This has been happening for 100 years, there is nothing new here.
I have yet to see a pilot wear a leather jacket to Europe so I guess for some of us this isn’t an issue.

If you’re going to that sweet overnight in Lincoln NE and want to look cool in your leather jacket, then go for it bro. Whatever you think makes you look cool. I won’t get in trouble for wearing what I’m paid a lot of money to wear. If it’s the hill you die on, I fare thee well.

most of the leather pilot jackets look like a Hefty bag full of trash. I have never once thought someone wearing one looks like a true aviator/sky god/cool guy.
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