UA only had 15 more airframes and very similar block hours on the merger date. The other main factor in ALPA merger policy that seems to be overlooked here is category and status of which the furloughees have neither.

As to the previous comments about who brought cash to the table, or who had the larger cash balance, remember that this was a cashless transaction where both stockholders were granted new shares in the new company with the Cal investors being credited a premium with 1.05/1 ratio.

UA also had "cash" that it drummed up in the summer of 09 by issuing a note against their last piece of un encumbered property (spare parts) for a steep 17.5% rate.

So yes, UA brought some cash in the same way as if one goes out and gets cash out against their house or credit cards and puts it in their bank account. For a company just 2 years out of bankruptcy, UA should have had a much stronger and less encumbered balance sheet, a fact lamented by Tilton in the DOJ hearings (funny how only Smisek's comments get posted) when he said that the capital markets were being closed off to UA and that they needed this merger to continue to access capital.

 

Yes, and they weren't stapled. They were integrated with everyone else based on career expectations. NWA received credit from the arbitrator for future retirements, while DAL received credit for more WB flying. There were other factors as well. It was a complicated ruling. I has to read the arbitrators decision several times.

 

And yet UAL had nearly 2000 more pilots and it wasn't because UAL was insanely overstaffed. Something tells me the total number of aircraft is not necessarily the key issue involved when comparing the two pre-merger airlines.

Or said another way, one of the airlines flew about 85% of its block hours on one fleet.

 

I was responding to the comment made about UA mainline having a much larger domestic presence than Cal. Both mainline networks were comparable in size but with differences in allocation.

 

Agreed.

 

I never mentioned furloughed pilots being stapled. But to answer your question, US Airways and America West merger. All furloughed East pilots and some active pilots were put on the bottom of the list.

However, I was not basing my comment on this merger and I don't believe this arbitration award will set a precedent in our integration. Especially, with a new merger policy in place.

Many on here are putting way too much weight on longevity. It's not everything.

 

Great quote find for your cause...but doesn't raise as many flags as Smisek's deathly comment now does it.

Hey, both of those great Americans said a lot of stuff in the DOJ hearings including a promise to quickly resolve labor integration...I have confidence in the arbitrators being smart enough to see how little value any banana shaped arrow comment from our CEOs should have on SLI. I also don't believe that the arbitrators are going to completely ignore both parties recent history and the one-sided rapid reduction in 100+ UAL airframes just prior to the merger, especially since Tiltons DOJ comments don't mesh with what he said from the other side of his mouth to investors/BOD about his company that was leading in on-time performance for 2 years, large WB order and a sizable revenue agreement with Chase. BTW, what is wrong with trading parts from an obsolete fleet for cash? Sorry UAL's $3B wasn't enough for CAL to merge, but to imply that Tilton's comment to the DOJ was correct and the awesome synergies we have achieved already since inception of this merger was the reason we now collectively have almost $9B are unreasonable. But you probably believe sCAL is the sole reason in the $6B increase in cash in just over 2 years.

This merger has had enough one-sided cuts...the chips will fall soon enough, I personally hope the country club dice aren't rigged this time. But there is a lot of benefit for management to keep the pilots bickering. 100% Staple job of 2000+ former/current furloughees will cause long term pain for the entire pilot group...is your personal seniority grap worth that kind of workplace?

 

Of which many (767) paid less than a 737 at CAL.

 

In a short answer yes it is worth it to them for a seniority grab. They will do anything to move up over someone else. Anyone around this industry has known that for a long time, the sad part is I don't feel anyone from alpa on the ual side is going to fight for furloughed pilots here, just an opinion but it does not seem like they are ready to fight for anything on our side. Hope I am wrong.

 

I am not that crusty but I have been around long enough to know there is a wide range of folks and what they'll do to move up from Scabs to resignations. Well just maybe the arbitrators won't be on the take and the "sides" won't have the opportunity to force a railroad job.