SLI Perspective
04-10-2013, 10:17 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by SEDPA
Wow ... Simply stated, but so matter of fact ... simple enough for anyone to understand, like 3 arbitrary lawyers.
04-10-2013, 10:20 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
Originally Posted by vspeed
Disagree with how you are using expectations. A career expectation for a furloughed pilot temporarily ceases to exist when furloughed...hence the meaning of the word furlough. Besides benefits, expectations shift to a priority of returning to work first, then continuing normal line of progression within the Active company ranks where expectations can then resume. Historically, furloughs have prevailed at airlines instead of layoffs since the unions require/enforce them and their protections afforded in CBA contracts. If the company had it their way, a layoff would be used instead of a furlough severing all ties including benefits.
Sled
04-10-2013, 10:30 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by LAX Pilot
That's a terrible argument. There was no "Expectation" or "Guarantee" that a COEX hire would be hired by CAL. Also, a career expectation is just that, regardless of being active or not.
An ACTIVE CAL pilot has 188 777 Captain jobs to look forward to.
And part of a growing airline (ala 787, and 737), plus the 762 and 764 which I guess is not a widebody in your eyes?? (But paid the same)
A FURLOUGHED UAL pilot has about 800 747 or 777 Captain jobs to look forward to.
At an airline with minimal, if any growth planned, no scope on widebody flying, and limited scope on regional 70 seat flying!
An ACTIVE CAL pilot has 188 777 Captain jobs to look forward to.
And part of a growing airline (ala 787, and 737), plus the 762 and 764 which I guess is not a widebody in your eyes?? (But paid the same)
A FURLOUGHED UAL pilot has about 800 747 or 777 Captain jobs to look forward to.
At an airline with minimal, if any growth planned, no scope on widebody flying, and limited scope on regional 70 seat flying!
Why don't you ask any of the regional guys where they would have liked to work if the merger had never happened?
04-10-2013, 10:34 AM
#44
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by LAX Pilot
Today is not relevant. Also 50% doesn't hold Captain. You probably weren't aware of this, but there are more FO's than Captains because the widebody fleets fly with 1 Captain and 3 FO's much of the time. So Based on the total number of Captain jobs it was a 94 hire.
Also there is a big deal between a career as a 737 pilot and flying a 747 A-350 or 777.
Also there is a big deal between a career as a 737 pilot and flying a 747 A-350 or 777.
Oh, this oughta be good. Do tell.....
04-10-2013, 10:44 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by jsled
Report Generated: 9/17/2010 9:29:39 AM......this is printed on every page of the bid results. Kinda hard to release it in 2011 when the results are posted in 2010. And I bet It will matter more than all the bids SINCE 2010 with ORD and DEN domiciles and 2006 Cap awards. We'll see.
Sled
Sled
I am certain that both Merger Committee's have the correct data and are working day and night to put forth their best arguments. The best thing for you to do right now is to find a hobby and wait until August or September. Your perspective is neither interesting nor relevant. If it makes you feel any better, however, I will listen sincerely and compassionately to your perspective when you fly as my FO after the integration.
04-10-2013, 10:49 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by jsled
well there is a valid argument. "if the company had their way, a layoff would be used...." Too bad for the company that we have a union contract. Furlough with recall rights is the rule. And with mandatory retirements, all furloughees will be back...if they so choose. And with LONGEVITY now in the mix, I reckon it's going to matter how many years active service these furloughees have/had, eh?
Sled
Sled
Not disagreeing on Active service on property either...
04-10-2013, 10:58 AM
#48
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
Originally Posted by vspeed
Disagree with how you are using expectations. A career expectation for a furloughed pilot temporarily ceases to exist when furloughed...hence the meaning of the word furlough. Besides benefits, expectations shift to a priority of returning to work first, then continuing normal line of progression within the Active company ranks where expectations can then resume. Historically, furloughs have prevailed at airlines instead of layoffs since the unions require/enforce them and their protections afforded in CBA contracts. If the company had it their way, a layoff would be used instead of a furlough severing all ties including benefits.
Guess what, they are coming back NOW!
You are correct that for a few of them they will have some ZERO dollar paycheck years, but the top 400 in the UAL seniority list were all furloughed and they all had a great career after a short furlough because of the widebody flying United had and currently has.
But I'd be willing to bet that absent the merger, more UAL pilots would have been widebody Captains that CAL pilots who were active. That can be shown statistically and proven and furloughees ARE on the seniority list (which is what is being integrated) and they also have a career expectation.
They also have longevity, some more and some less.
04-10-2013, 11:04 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Originally Posted by LAX Pilot
That's actually nor correct. EVERY furloughed United pilot in history was called back. Even the furloughs after 9/11 got called back.
Guess what, they are coming back NOW!
You are correct that for a few of them they will have some ZERO dollar paycheck years, but the top 400 in the UAL seniority list were all furloughed and they all had a great career after a short furlough because of the widebody flying United had and currently has.
But I'd be willing to bet that absent the merger, more UAL pilots would have been widebody Captains that CAL pilots who were active. That can be shown statistically and proven and furloughees ARE on the seniority list (which is what is being integrated) and they also have a career expectation.
They also have longevity, some more and some less.
Guess what, they are coming back NOW!
You are correct that for a few of them they will have some ZERO dollar paycheck years, but the top 400 in the UAL seniority list were all furloughed and they all had a great career after a short furlough because of the widebody flying United had and currently has.
But I'd be willing to bet that absent the merger, more UAL pilots would have been widebody Captains that CAL pilots who were active. That can be shown statistically and proven and furloughees ARE on the seniority list (which is what is being integrated) and they also have a career expectation.
They also have longevity, some more and some less.
04-10-2013, 11:10 AM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 29
"If their base structure and work rules were like ours, and every pilot that could actually hold Captain bid it, their junior Captain would be a 1994 hire."
Yup... don't forget to brag about your pre contract 12 payrates, and all the airplanes you had on order prior to the merger announcement.... oh wait, did you have any. Oh maybe I need to ask a Skywest or Republic guy about airplane orders and growing at the LUAL.
Come on guys... Let the arbitrator decide. You guys walked out of mediation so one can only assume it was not going well for LUAL.
Yup... don't forget to brag about your pre contract 12 payrates, and all the airplanes you had on order prior to the merger announcement.... oh wait, did you have any. Oh maybe I need to ask a Skywest or Republic guy about airplane orders and growing at the LUAL.
Come on guys... Let the arbitrator decide. You guys walked out of mediation so one can only assume it was not going well for LUAL.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
