Yeah I understand, but it doesn't matter. We have contractual rights. They cannot force us to recall. We are new hire pilots at lCAL. We are furloughed from UAL. Both the company and ALPA were EXTREMELY explicit in this.

If what you say is true, then all the lUAL pilots at lCAL that want to exercise their recall rights would need to quit their CAL job. Now. Not a good plan for CAL 737 manpower planning.

Before I accepted the job at CAL, I inquired about this. The choices I said before are what I was told by the company's furlough coordinator, I believe.

If you have new info, I will gladly listen.

 

Again, I believe the choices are:

1. Recall in place. Stay in your BES, with your new seniority number. Do you use your new seniority number for bidding right away? Not sure but it should be soon.

2. Enter the recall process and take your chances. Will you stay with your lCAL new SLI number or lUAL SLI number for monthly bidding until you recall? I don't know.

3. Voluntary furloughs get to recall to BES if they can hold it, or bump if they can't. Can they bump to both sides? I don't know.

4. Quit lCAL. Go back on furlough. Recall or bypass.

 

Everything you are mentioning is PRE- SLI. Once SLI is done there isn't an L-CAL. Its ONE LIST, and you are on it flying again.

 

There isn't a choice. If you are flying a L-CAL as a L-UAL furloughee you are "recalled in place" immediately upon the SLI being published. You won't be asked to do anything and won't have options.

This is a provision of the TPA.

 

It's seems like you want it all: Recall right for 10 years and choice of your seniority.
It doesn't work like that. The agreement for SLI - was no choices, recall in place if on L-CAL new hired position, or if absent/ furloughed, recall right up to 10 years from last furloughed day.
Your choices now are limited, you're recalled in place to new UA, or you can quit/resign.
After SLI, there will be a system bid for everyone to bid their choice of A/C and base, implementation will take a while, since their are many pilots with many expectations, plus we have to continue new hire classes, since we don't expect too many accepting recall. Many of the furloughed pilots, that wanted to came back, are already here on the CAL side. Perhaps 10%, out of the remaining 700+, at best will return, all depends on their placement on seniority list, which, even according to L-UAL proposed list, wan't be high enough for the rest of furloughed pilots to return. If your are a CA in JB or SWA and in your 50s, there isn't any incentive for you to came back here, since it'll take at lest 5+ years to get to the compatible pay and QOL as what they have now. Only the most desperate 55+ will come back, those that fly for cargo out of Afghanistan for $70K or less. Average age of recalls is about 40-50 yo. Yes the best and most productive time of their lives where sucked out by empty promise of L-UAL propaganda - sorry could't resist

 

This debate assumes the ual list is adopted in its entirity. If not this whole debate is a moot point except for the most senior of the furloughs which at cal is a fairly small minority. Which might I add is remote possibility at best. If they were going to use either list in its entirety, I would imagine it would not take them a month to cut and paste! Or of course they could be devising a list that is even more advantageous to the furlough's as well. Well know on Tues.

 

Jet Link,

At this point in time, the above statement is not true.

ALPA offered WRITTEN assurances to many L-UAL pilots considering Guppy jobs at L-CAL that state the opposite.

It is true that recent responses from ALPA for updated information have been muddier than pond water.
If you have updated and legally binding guidance on this issue please share it.

V/R

SP

 

I thought we were done with system bids, we just use the old United way of doing vacancy bids now.

 

Yes, you are correct, sorry. No system bid, vacancy bid. Since new United will have now freedom to move A/C around and stuff them properly there will be movement around bases and A/C.

 

from ALPA blast mail in the past year, and from what I understood, all L-UAL furloughed pilots agreeing to CAL guppy flying, will be on active seniority list prior to SLI in their respected seniority (junior to all active pilots form CAL) after SLI all those pilots will be on active pilot seniority list, therefore they are recall in place according to TA 5-B b.,c.,iii.. That is my understanding of TA and UPA, I.

the only reference in UPA and TA I could find was:

UPA December 2012:
LOA 25 Merger Transition Issues

2. s/United Pilots Offered s/Continental Jobs:

s/United pilots who were offered employment at s/Continental in accordance with paragraph 7.B of the Transition and Process Agreement dated September 26, 2010 will not be considered to be on Involuntary Furlough for purposes of Section 5-B-1-a-(1) of the Agreement.

5. Transition Hiring and Recall

It is understood by the parties that the rights of the pilots to new hire positions are governed by Section 7 of the TPA until completion of the ISL at which time the Agreement process shall apply to all vacancies and recalls, including the recall of all pilots on voluntary furlough.

... and from Transition and Process Agreement:

5-B. Acceptance of Integrated Seniority List.
Subject only to the conditions stated below, the Parties will accept the results of the Seniority List Integration and incorporate them in the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement.
(i) The Integrated Seniority List shall have only prospective effect. Specifically, and without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the following conditions shall apply:
a. There shall be no "system flush" whereby a Pilot may displace another Pilot from the latter’s position as a result of the implementation of the Integrated Seniority List or the implementation or expiration of any condition or restriction; and
b. Pilots on furlough status at the time the Integrated Seniority List is implemented may not bump or displace pilots in active status at that time; and
c. Pilots who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, are in the process of completing or who have completed qualification training for a new position (e.g., B-777 Captain or A-319 First Officer) may be assigned to the position for which they are being or have been trained, regardless of their relative standing on the Integrated Seniority List.
(ii) There shall be no requirement or obligation to compensate Pilots for work not actually performed or positions not actually held during the period for which compensation is sought, as a result of the Integrated Seniority List and its implementation.
(iii) The Integrated Seniority List shall not contain conditions or restrictions that substantially increase the costs associated with training above those normally associated with the merger of two airlines.

7-B. Job Opportunities.

(i) If either Continental or United intends to hire new Pilots, it will first offer employment to fill such positions in seniority order to Pilots on furlough from the other Airline. Acceptance or rejection of such an offer or failure to qualify will not affect a Pilot’s recall rights or placement on the Integrated Seniority List (which shall be based upon his seniority position at the Pilot’s originating Airline). A Pilot accepting an offer under this provision will be subject to the normal background and employment requirements of the employing Airline. The Pilot will be an employee of the employing Airline, within the applicable ALPA council for that Airline, but will not be required to serve or complete a probation period. Such Pilot will be paid the greater of (1) the actual hourly pay rate he was receiving on the date of his furlough, or (2) the hourly pay rate to which his years of service at the employing Airline otherwise entitles.
(ii) No Pilot shall be entitled to more than two (2) offers of employment pursuant to this Section 7-B. If a Pilot declines the first offer, the employing Airline will not contact him for a second offer until he provides at least thirty (30) days notice to the employing Airline in writing of his desire to re-enter the hiring process. At that time he will be eligible for the next available offer in seniority order.
(iii) Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise seniority for all purposes at the employing Airline in the seniority order of their originating Airline but junior to all Pilots who were on the seniority list of the employing Airline prior to the Merger Agreement Date. Upon implementation of the ISL Pilots will exercise seniority pursuant to their position on the ISL. All Pilots hired by the employing Airline after the Merger Agreement Date who are not Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise their seniority for all purposes junior to all Pilots who were on either seniority list prior to the Merger Agreement Date.
(iv) Notwithstanding Section 27, Part 2.A.2, B.2 or C.2 of the Continental CBA, all Pilots on either the United Pilots’ or Continental Pilots’ Seniority List as of the Effective Date of this Agreement employed by Continental shall be eligible for Medical, Dental and Vision Plan coverage on the Pilot’s first day of Active Service.