I thought I saw a couple backfills/secondaries in the 787 and 777 but wouldn't swear to it. It could of been because of bypass awards.

 

The backfills are not "announced" but they do show up in the final results. They showed up in a few snapshots as well in the recent past.

 

They were part of the results. Example, they backfilled A320 Captain bids.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by backfills. If you mean trickle down bids, they are included in with the final award. Anything above and beyond the advertised vacancies are usually attributed to trickle downs.

So, to answer your question, they are not awarded separately, but include in the final award.

If you mean any unfilled vacancies given to new hires, then, yes that is a separate process, but in this case, there were no unfilled vacancies, so nothing from this bid will get to new hires. The Guppy FO in both SFO and LAX got close though, junior new hires moving west....

I got to fly with 2 different new hires last week. I haven't done that in 14 years....

 

Backfills are a lUAL term for unadvertised vacancies that occur because so many pilots in a category bid an advertised vacancy, they felt the need to "backfill" those empty positions. Hence the Bus bids that showed up in the final results.

A couple bids ago they showed them in a couple of snapshots, but it appears they decided against that.

 

I may have this wrong but let me try to explain the "backfill" or secondary awards. When they publish the snapshots if enough pilots bid out of a BES and it falls below the published "Min" for that BES the snapshot will show awards that bring the number to the "Min". On the final award the company must fill awards to the Min level just like the snapshot. They can not award above the Max either. So the company has flexibility between the min and max published numbers. Also consider the numbers are of active pilots only. So example would be EWR 737 FO on 14-11v, they added two pilots yet one does not count because they are on leave.

Also for new hires they can only go to unfilled vacancies. With no unfilled vacancies on this bid they will need to put out a new bid to create slots for new hires.

 

Use of the Term "secondary" has been used at both legacy carriers well before the merger. Not sure where the term "backfill" came from, except for a process, but I didn't see it in either prior merger contract related to equipment bids. It could have been made up by someone unknowingly.
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Current CBA

8-C-4 Awarding of Vacancies Upon closing of a vacancy bulletin, pilots shall be awarded the number of advertised primary vacancies. At the same time, pilots may be awarded secondary vacancies that have become available due to the awarding of the advertised primary vacancies. Further, awards may be made to fill the vacancies resulting from all subsequent awards. Secondary vacancies shall be awarded to ensure the published minimum number of positions are maintained for all Categories. These secondary vacancies shall not have been advertised, but shall share the same effective date as the primary vacancies.


UAL 2003/2007

8-C-4 Awarding of Vacancies Upon closing of a vacancy bulletin, pilots shall be awarded the number of assignments needed in each of the advertised vacancies. At the same time, pilots shall be awarded assignments, if needed, in domicile, status and equipment types which have become available due to the assignment of pilots to fill the advertised primary vacancies. Further, awards may be made to fill the vacancies resulting from all subsequent awards. These secondary vacancies will not have been advertised, but will share the same effective date as the primary vacancies.


Cal 2002
D. Displacements may occur on any System Bid award. Adjustment Bids 1. A Pilot Bulletin will be issued announcing an Adjustment Bid at least five (5) Calendar Days prior to an Adjustment Bid award date. 2. 3. 4. E. Secondary vacancies may be awarded. The number of pilots awarded any BES may not differ by more than twenty percent (20%) or twenty (20) pilots, whichever is less, from the previous System Bid award unless previously agreed to by the SSC. Pilots may only be displaced if they are not staffed in their most recently awarded BES, or are not in the Hard Period for that BES. A pilot can only be displaced due to reductions in his awarded BES or by a more senior pilot that has displacement rights from another BES

 

There are backfill on DCA and ORD 777 and LAX and IAH 787 is what I saw

 

Thanks...I was trying to bid in to a BES that was not part of the bid, but I saw that about 4 guys from that BES were successful in bids leaving that position. I had hoped it would trigger below Min, and I could get in.

 

There were other backfills as well. Some people who bid out of a base where they advertised a vacancy backfilled. So a guppy Captain in SFO bid out to 787 FO in LAX and they added another backfill slot to increase the number. So they only advertised 30 vacancies, but awarded 36.

In the past at LUAL when we had 10 different equipment types with 3 airplanes with 3 pilot seats and 10 pilot bases a simple bid of 60 positions on a monthly bid might generate 300 total openings as people upgraded in smaller increments.

Someone did the math on a few bids and found that one 747 Captain vacancy would create up to seven downline backfills.

With the pay banding where you have basically narrow body and wide body, we aren't going to see that again.