Houston, you have a problem?
05-26-2015 | 04:11 PM
#261
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From: A320 Cap
Ahh, he said, she said.
Think whatever you'd like. You're the victim of course! Not only have I gone after you because you're the guy that stated Cal guys stole from you but now I'm going after ALL legacy U guys. Utter crap and completely putting words in my mouth that are false.
I'll respond to whoever barks the biggest load of manure...don't care about legacy this or that. But guess what, I don't because it's such a waste of time and blatantly emotional and biased. The only reason I responded to you is because your "stole" accusations really hit the bottom of the barrel. Like I or anyone else had absolutely anything to do with it. Get a grip!
Think whatever you'd like. You're the victim of course! Not only have I gone after you because you're the guy that stated Cal guys stole from you but now I'm going after ALL legacy U guys. Utter crap and completely putting words in my mouth that are false.
I'll respond to whoever barks the biggest load of manure...don't care about legacy this or that. But guess what, I don't because it's such a waste of time and blatantly emotional and biased. The only reason I responded to you is because your "stole" accusations really hit the bottom of the barrel. Like I or anyone else had absolutely anything to do with it. Get a grip!
You say you don't care and you don't respond.... but then you respond so obviously you care. You tell me not to put words in your mouth but that's exactly what you did to me.
05-26-2015 | 04:18 PM
#262
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Posts: 2,282
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From: A320 Cap
Actually, the arbitratiors said we should not have negotiated with the company alone, not that we should not have, or did not deserve profit sharing. We should have made the same stink when Heppner went running to the company and got you guys scope outside of the TPA because of the emotional impact opening a SFO 737 base would have had. Using your train of thought you did not have contractional protection to that flying and did not deserve to be given the scope to protect it.
I also can understand your perspective of the 737 SFO base opening, but the bigger issue with that was who was going to be flying the 737-900ER's bought to replace the UAL 757's. Per trilateral agreement those were to be flown by LUAL pilots, which made logical sense and was the fair and just thing to do. The problem was, LUAL had no 737 instructors, sims, etc. so had no way of realistically training for those planes. Contract negotiations took so long to complete that the trilateral was set to expire. There were considerable questions about whether the provisions were enforceable after the sunset. Pierce didn't seem to have any moral issue with taking LUAL planes that were specifically orders to replace LUAL planes and flying them himself. That's why I was so strongly advocating to ratify this contract. It was going to be LUAL fighting the company AND Pierce to retain that flying
05-26-2015 | 04:21 PM
#263
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
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From: A320 Cap
So, this CAL guy on the committee was the village idiot, I mean expert? Great. Thanks ALPA for making sure our ALPA guy was straight laced and squared away. I guess your ALPA assigned lawyer was better than our assigned ALPA lawyer. So much for the tool box.
ALPA told us we wouldn't have to worry about that stuff. The ALPA toolbox would be available to us completely.
You can talk about whatever year you want to. The issue wit Pan Am is this: Pan Am provided UAL pilots a tremendous long term growth benefit and UAL pilots scoffed at it. Clamored about and yelled and screamed. CAL pilots provided you all again with a tremendous benefit, and not only did you scoff at it but took advantage of it to take care of the 1400 unemployed pilots and did so on the backs of fully and gainfully employed pilots who have never lost a day of work.
Sure it's a discussion. Some guy keeps bringing it up. The CAL pilots would have done better on their own without the so-called merger experts that ALPA gave to us and that ALPA dues money paid for. This guy Katz was approved by and paid for by ALPA National. No one told us we were going to get saddled with a dead wood lawyer. We were too trusting in what ALPA told us in 1999 and 2000.
Remember. CAL pilots hired post 1996 never missed a day of work due to furlough. So, it is completely rational for those pilots to feel as though They showed up with a life boat to bail out UAL and instead ALPA takes the life boat, then made them walk the plank while paying for and financing the activities of the merger committee. Then, the award comes out and not only did they walk the plank but got to hold the boat anchor. Now that they are thrown overboard we keep getting gems like BAT bids. So these dudes are in 40 feet of water drowning and we have to deal with profit sharing bafoonery. Last I checked UCH holdings writes the pay checks so if they paid out any moneys they should not have those are the ones that make it right, not CAL pilots.
ALPA told us we wouldn't have to worry about that stuff. The ALPA toolbox would be available to us completely.
You can talk about whatever year you want to. The issue wit Pan Am is this: Pan Am provided UAL pilots a tremendous long term growth benefit and UAL pilots scoffed at it. Clamored about and yelled and screamed. CAL pilots provided you all again with a tremendous benefit, and not only did you scoff at it but took advantage of it to take care of the 1400 unemployed pilots and did so on the backs of fully and gainfully employed pilots who have never lost a day of work.
Sure it's a discussion. Some guy keeps bringing it up. The CAL pilots would have done better on their own without the so-called merger experts that ALPA gave to us and that ALPA dues money paid for. This guy Katz was approved by and paid for by ALPA National. No one told us we were going to get saddled with a dead wood lawyer. We were too trusting in what ALPA told us in 1999 and 2000.
Remember. CAL pilots hired post 1996 never missed a day of work due to furlough. So, it is completely rational for those pilots to feel as though They showed up with a life boat to bail out UAL and instead ALPA takes the life boat, then made them walk the plank while paying for and financing the activities of the merger committee. Then, the award comes out and not only did they walk the plank but got to hold the boat anchor. Now that they are thrown overboard we keep getting gems like BAT bids. So these dudes are in 40 feet of water drowning and we have to deal with profit sharing bafoonery. Last I checked UCH holdings writes the pay checks so if they paid out any moneys they should not have those are the ones that make it right, not CAL pilots.
As for the rest, I disagree with pretty much everything you say and every opinion you have voiced.
Last edited by gettinbumped; 05-26-2015 at 04:46 PM.
05-26-2015 | 04:26 PM
#264
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,168
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From: Gets weekends off
05-26-2015 | 05:47 PM
#265
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 908
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From: 737 fo
Those guys are called Debbie's boys because Debbie Mcoy furloughed them to make a name for herself. They were back well before Oct. 2005 (3 years). We were hiring off the street in Early 2005. Debbie's boys were back very soon after Larry took over from Gordon. One of the first things Larry did was fire Debbie McCoy (she was a scab) because she had cut the pilots too far and could not cover some contracts that we then lost.
05-26-2015 | 06:05 PM
#266
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 1
1996 hires were briefly furloughed, but they were furloughed to Continental Express. We had B727 engineers who took a 7 month vacation to get their ATP's and went to Express to fly EMB 120's. Some were gone longer, but they are all senior Captains now, and have been for a long time.
I can check it all day long. However, anyone hired post 1996 was never furloughed, except for the 147 hostages management took in order to get us to sell off our scope clause, which backfired for management. That was the summer of record flying, as you may recall the videos on you tube "not enough co-pilots."
Last edited by baseball; 05-26-2015 at 06:06 PM. Reason: spelling
05-26-2015 | 06:12 PM
#268
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 1
Baseball,
Why would a 1996 hire at CAL feel like you do about the ISL? Have you spoken with one? As a 1997 UAL hire myself, the closest CAL pilot to my DOH was just over 2000 numbers senior to me on the ISL. I was never furloughed and have spent a total of 3 months of my time here on reserve. I simply have found it easier to move on and accept it. You never will, so just let it gnaw at you forever I suppose.
Why would a 1996 hire at CAL feel like you do about the ISL? Have you spoken with one? As a 1997 UAL hire myself, the closest CAL pilot to my DOH was just over 2000 numbers senior to me on the ISL. I was never furloughed and have spent a total of 3 months of my time here on reserve. I simply have found it easier to move on and accept it. You never will, so just let it gnaw at you forever I suppose.
As I said many (MANY) times, I, nor any employee, or any pilot asked for this, and I didn't have a vote, so this is a corporate business transaction in which I am but a pawn. As an economic "widget" in this company it is not something I can influence or control. But, I won't tolerate any more crappp from someone saying "unity this and unity that" and then saying "lets just all move on" and then saying "I am on the outside of the glass window trying to get in." You get how that doesn't fly right? You do get that right?
So, you can't have it one way on Monday and be for all this unity stuff, and change opinions on a Friday and then come full circle again on Sunday.
05-26-2015 | 06:18 PM
#269
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 1
Seriously? So there weren't pilots on furlough from 2008 to the merger date?
Continental to furlough 140-180 pilots | | Dallas Morning News
Plus what about this one?
I guess this newspaper got it wrong.
Jan 11, 2002
HOUSTON(AP) - Continental Airlines said Thursday it will furlough 100 more pilots in March bringing the total number of pilots laid off since the Sept 11 attacks to 539.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,2182963&hl=en
Continental to furlough 140-180 pilots | | Dallas Morning News
Plus what about this one?
I guess this newspaper got it wrong.
Jan 11, 2002
HOUSTON(AP) - Continental Airlines said Thursday it will furlough 100 more pilots in March bringing the total number of pilots laid off since the Sept 11 attacks to 539.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,2182963&hl=en
I was specifically referring to the era of the disputed/convoluted years. Not post 9-11. However, those guys were back in fairly short order. Sorry if I confused you. But, the post 9-11 furloughs, excluding MLLV was about 400. The company counted those on MLLV and that number was about another 150 who went back on active duty or who were federally activated. I was activated and was one of those mis-counted.
05-26-2015 | 06:23 PM
#270
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 1
Well, I know the result, but the actual motivation for management was to break the union via Pierce to get us to throw away our scope clause. We got to keep the scope clause because the 147 allowed themselves to be sacrificed. Once management figured the MEC couldn't be bought with a 2 percent pay raise in exchange for gutting the scope clause plans were made in short order for the company to bring them back. CAL management wanted to do to CAL pilots what UAL management did to them and send the domestic flying to express jet. I guess it depends on your point of view, but that's how I view it. I believe that summer I had 9 junior manning trips, and that was the most I'd ever flown since back in the early 90's over a summer.
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