Originally Posted by DashTrash

If there are no improvements to reserve and the rest of the rumors are true, then I am a staunch NO vote. As one of the five main pillars of this negotiation, I believe that it should have been addressed in some way. It appears that it wasn't though. Unacceptable!!! It's great that our furloughees are going to be made whole, but that is a small part of this pilot group. So as a junior pilot, the only thing that we get out of this deal is pay rates and to be worked harder because of FMRS concessions (presumably), and reduced career progression.

Originally Posted by svergin

Lots of pilots that live in base would sit happily on reserve can't hold the position because some pilot who commutes upbid as fast as possible for the $$ and is now complaining about how terrible reserve is.

So we vote this down. Then what if it takes 3 years to get a contract and we still don't fix reserve, but we just get the same pay raises that we could get now but we get them in 3 years? Voting no would be a frustration vote and nothing else. There are no concessions in this deal apparently. Just improvements. I think a lot of us would like the guaranteed something now vs the unknown maybe something maybe not in 3 more years. Either way the next deal could take 5 years ALA Southwest whether we take this or not. I'd rather be sitting here in 5 years with pay raises than sitting around with the same deal we have now wondering why we didn't take the deal and I voted NO on the current contract.

Originally Posted by svergin

Reserve is a self-inflicted scenario for every pilot except new hires.

Tell that to people in IAH or SFO that were line holders, or the countless others across our industry that gets downgraded or displaced. You must have lived a charmed life to have such an attitude towards others...

Originally Posted by gettinbumped

One other thought. DAL and SWA have been negotiating with leverage out the bottom for YEARS and neither have come anywhere CLOSE to this deal.

Originally Posted by oldmako

From Webster -

Definition of INCENTIVIZE
transitive verb
: to provide with an incentive <would incentivize employees with stock options>

The company WANTS something from us. The current agreement prevents them from using the 787 on routes they would like. If this agreement (as is purported) is turned down, the company will still want, and need that relief. They bought those planes to be operated on specific, long haul routes and they are currently prevented from doing so. This is leverage, plain and simple. Those of you who think that their need will not encourage them to return to the table surprise me.

Once upon a time there were a whole bunch of brand new 747-400's parked in the desert because of restrictive contractual language. They didn't sit there too long. What is so different this time? I guess that was too long ago for most to remember.

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

Close to what deal? Current book plus a pay raise and furloughs made whole?

Originally Posted by APC225

You miss the entire point of decent reserve rules. Even if it's "self-inflicted" for all but new hires, by dumping crappy QOL of new hires you welcome them into your pilot group with a great big slap in the face. When it comes time for unity in contract vote or any other union effort they return the favor. Since the senior pilots hosed them, they see no reason to stand with them. And, since everyone is a new hire at some point, you eventually create a group of pilots that despise anyone senior to them and, as in any abusive relationship, now feel it's ok to dump on anyone junior to them.

Also, next time there's a 10% furlough of the pilot group, you'll see non-"self-inflicted" commuters and non-"self-inflicted" reserves all over the place, and they won't be new hires. Times are good now, but they will get ugly again. It's cyclical. They always do.

Originally Posted by Firsttimeflyer

Still waiting to hear the official word but I'd be interested to know if the reserve changes were lengthy/wordy enough it wasn't easily spread by word of mouth? That's my hope anyways. I can't see why they couldn't fix some of the long list of items that would improve QOL for reserves.

Also, anybody have some insider knowledge on the NSNB?