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Originally Posted by baseball
(Post 2146592)
I never agreed with the removal of the sim ride.
1. It makes it an HR focused process and not a flight ops focused process. 2. It removes the pilot evaluator from the process at a very critical time. We want to have confidence in the applicant's ability to get into and out of the training program. 3. We really want to know how the applicant flies. I guess you can say. More flight ops, and less HR. On the sim, not sure I agree. When I interviewed (94) we were using the Frasca. What a waste of time and resources. It evaluated nothing frankly. It most certainly didn't evaluate flying skills, decision making or CRM. How is sticking a potential new hire into a sim for an airplane they have probably never flown judging anything? We earn our keep with our decision making. That can much more easily and accurately be judged with scenario based discussions. The flying, is, or at least should be the easy part. The hard part of our job is the head work. I am not fundamentally against a sim ride in any way, but it needs to be structured to evaluate something valuable. The Frasca didn't do that, and based on what I've heard from buddies the newer sim ride was more of the same. Honestly, most of us that are flying glass cockpit airplanes and have been for years probably couldn't pass the ride that we were requiring of our new hires when the ride was part of the process. Scott |
Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
(Post 2146634)
If you think that's bad, take a quick look at what adds points to the application process. We have basically turned the application process into an extortion scheme. The job fair process forces applicants to spend $500-1000 for about 15 minutes of face time. Join an organization you wouldn't have, reserve a space, pay to get in, probably pay to get there and pay to stay a night, work it around your schedule and hope that the line isn't too long to see a recruiter. It is nothing short of extortion IMHO.
On the sim, not sure I agree. When I interviewed (94) we were using the Frasca. What a waste of time and resources. It evaluated nothing frankly. It most certainly didn't evaluate flying skills, decision making or CRM. How is sticking a potential new hire into a sim for an airplane they have probably never flown judging anything? We earn our keep with our decision making. That can much more easily and accurately be judged with scenario based discussions. The flying, is, or at least should be the easy part. The hard part of our job is the head work. I am not fundamentally against a sim ride in any way, but it needs to be structured to evaluate something valuable. The Frasca didn't do that, and based on what I've heard from buddies the newer sim ride was more of the same. Honestly, most of us that are flying glass cockpit airplanes and have been for years probably couldn't pass the ride that we were requiring of our new hires when the ride was part of the process. Scott I was in a 737 classic for my sim ride. half were in the md 80 and the other half in the 73. Haven't flown a Frasca since instrument training. I agree Frasca not a good choice. I also agree on the whole "points system." I understand how it could be viewed as extortion. I just think its jumping through meaningless and useless "hoops." Like "checking the box syndrome". Let's check a box. Like...........that box is stupid, so why check it? There seems to be an association for every type of pilot these days. We got the 99's. We got OBAP, we got the GPA, We've got so many special interest groups (clubs/associaitons) that it is mind-boggeling. let me see... Can we start a pilots association for everyone else? I call it the EVEPA. If you aren't gay, not female, non black you can join the everyone else pilots association. EVEPA. It's a joke, so don't get your knickers in a knot.... |
Originally Posted by baseball
(Post 2146657)
I see.
I was in a 737 classic for my sim ride. half were in the md 80 and the other half in the 73. Haven't flown a Frasca since instrument training. I agree Frasca not a good choice. I also agree on the whole "points system." I understand how it could be viewed as extortion. I just think its jumping through meaningless and useless "hoops." Like "checking the box syndrome". Let's check a box. Like...........that box is stupid, so why check it? There seems to be an association for every type of pilot these days. We got the 99's. We got OBAP, we got the GPA, We've got so many special interest groups (clubs/associaitons) that it is mind-boggeling. let me see... Can we start a pilots association for everyone else? I call it the EVEPA. If you aren't gay, not female, non black you can join the everyone else pilots association. EVEPA. It's a joke, so don't get your knickers in a knot.... I would donate $1000 to this EVEPA tomorrow. $1069 if you come up with a really cool hat with maybe a logo of a middle aged mustachioed white pilot's head wearing aviators and resting on a set of Icelandic Snow Owl wings holding knee pads and white flag. Is that Ray cyst? Oh, and google "knickers". Thank me later.:cool: |
Originally Posted by baseball
(Post 2146657)
I see.
I was in a 737 classic for my sim ride. half were in the md 80 and the other half in the 73. Haven't flown a Frasca since instrument training. I agree Frasca not a good choice. I also agree on the whole "points system." I understand how it could be viewed as extortion. I just think its jumping through meaningless and useless "hoops." Like "checking the box syndrome". Let's check a box. Like...........that box is stupid, so why check it? There seems to be an association for every type of pilot these days. We got the 99's. We got OBAP, we got the GPA, We've got so many special interest groups (clubs/associaitons) that it is mind-boggeling. let me see... Can we start a pilots association for everyone else? I call it the EVEPA. If you aren't gay, not female, non black you can join the everyone else pilots association. EVEPA. It's a joke, so don't get your knickers in a knot.... So what should our hiring process look like? Frankly, I think UAL is getting some amazingly qualified candidates. Far better from a raw number basis than we've probably ever seen. Age 65 assured that. The 2000's were a really crappy time to be coming up. Pure timing, like almost all of this career has and probably will be forever. This is a good time to be hired, however, and we need to focus on hiring the best group of pilots possible. Is the Hogan really necessary? It "weeded out" some really good candidates IMHO. Heck, when I applied the big decision was whether you typed or wrote (with ink) your application. How many good pilots are we weeding out because of that simple HR box? The medical has gone away, now the sim has gone away... yet the psych garbage remains. Just a thought. And I agree that flt ops and line pilot eval should be the main driver in pilot hiring. Scott |
Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
(Post 2146634)
If you think that's bad, take a quick look at what adds points to the application process. We have basically turned the application process into an extortion scheme. The job fair process forces applicants to spend $500-1000 for about 15 minutes of face time. Join an organization you wouldn't have, reserve a space, pay to get in, probably pay to get there and pay to stay a night, work it around your schedule and hope that the line isn't too long to see a recruiter. It is nothing short of extortion IMHO.
On the sim, not sure I agree. When I interviewed (94) we were using the Frasca. What a waste of time and resources. It evaluated nothing frankly. It most certainly didn't evaluate flying skills, decision making or CRM. How is sticking a potential new hire into a sim for an airplane they have probably never flown judging anything? We earn our keep with our decision making. That can much more easily and accurately be judged with scenario based discussions. The flying, is, or at least should be the easy part. The hard part of our job is the head work. I am not fundamentally against a sim ride in any way, but it needs to be structured to evaluate something valuable. The Frasca didn't do that, and based on what I've heard from buddies the newer sim ride was more of the same....... Scott I agree, I don't know if I could pass it now without a practice ride. Besides the "buy your ticket" aspect now, I don't like the current promoted aspect of "nominate an intern," and especially, the nepotism of "nominate a family member." I'd much rather they gave each of us one or two names a year to endorse. Then you could use it for the person you really felt was the best candidate: the weird family member who is an awesome stick, or the average-plus guy that is easy to fly with from your last flying gig. |
More contribution to the thread drift but I heard American used to put a civilian and a military applicant in a sim together. They would be given a mini pc to see how they worked together.
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Originally Posted by APC225
(Post 2145869)
I hope they are not. As for me, as the PIC I don't even ask or try to figure out which legacy I'm flying with. We eventually talk about backgrounds and if I hear a LUAL or LCAL aircraft I engage that info as an aircraft flown, not what company it was flown for. It's a safety of flight issue to me. We're there to operate a piece of equipment from here to there. Some things are distractions to that. That's my choice. But as Colonel Nathan R Jessup said, I have that privilege.
I just LOVE to start my pairing/id with some dumb *** comments coming from the left seater... "Wow, I feel much better now that I have a continental jepp kit up here", or " you know this airplane was brought in by a lual crew because..." Get over it boys n gals..that ship has long set sail! |
Originally Posted by socalflyboy
(Post 2147237)
But that's not always the case...
I just LOVE to start my pairing/id with some dumb *** comments coming from the left seater... "Wow, I feel much better now that I have a continental jepp kit up here", or " you know this airplane was brought in by a lual crew because..." Get over it boys n gals..that ship has long set sail! It's only acceptable to mock IAH crews (regardless of legacy) when emptying trash from the cockpit during preflight, particularly when you come across a cup of spit. |
Originally Posted by socalflyboy
(Post 2147237)
" you know this airplane was brought in by a lual crew because..."
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because...
...there is a headset plugged in =) |
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