Originally Posted by MTSUFlyer

The result in total career compensation (pay + 401K) was about $9.4 million at Delta and $9.3 million at UPS… a wash. That’s not including UPS’s pension. If I assume I live until 80, then that’s worth another $1.66 million at UPS ($4,400 FDA assumed).

Originally Posted by Grease

I’m curious, did you calculate total career compensation from present day until retirement for both companies, or did you include what you have already earned at Delta in the calculations?

Originally Posted by MTSUFlyer

Hey all,
Any insight would be much appreciated. Here's the situation...

I live in Louisville with no plans of moving (unless I want to get a divorce!). I’m barely on the left side of 40. I’ve been at Delta for almost 6 years, commute to Atlanta, and sit about 70% on the seniority list. Life is good. This month I’m planning to leave Delta to start at UPS. Biggest reason- to live in domicile. I tried to weigh all the pros and cons. I’ve got several buddies in the Louisville guard unit who fly for UPS. They all say the water feels good. Also got several Delta guard buddies who are scratching their head a little. I don’t know anyone who has spent a significant time at a major/legacy pax carrier then made the jump to UPS. I know this is a highly subjective decision. Is it worth it to start over to live in domicile? That’s the questions. I tried comparing several factors below.

I tried to upload a spreadsheet of some numbers I ran but the file type isn’t supported. I tried to summarize the inputs I used below.

Seniority Progression

I looked at seniority progression based off mandatory retirements and from the latest rumor of the desire to hire 3,600 pilots ASAP at Delta. I assumed it would take 3 years to hire that many pilots. I did not factor in any future hiring at UPS for growth, only to match mandatory retirements. To summarize, if I stay at Delta, I’ll be at about 2% on the seniority list if I stay to 65. At UPS, I’ll be at about 11%. Chances are that my percentage at UPS could be a little better than that considering that this is based off mandatory retirements and the average age of a retirement at UPS is ~62.5. There are a lot of upcoming retirements at Delta and UPS at about an equal percentage rate until 2035, where UPS starts to pull the lead causing the seniority progression gap to close. So basically, from 2022 until 2035, I am about 30-40% farther down the list at Delta compared to at UPS. After 2035, that spread starts to close and ends at about 10% spread by 2046.

Upgrade Timeframe

The point on the seniority list where I would bid for upgrade is quite different when comparing a commuter’s schedule vs in-domicile schedule. At Delta, I probable wouldn’t consider upgrading until I could hold a regular line in ATL on the 737. That would be when I hit about 37% on the seniority list which should occur in 2029. For UPS, upgrading to a junior line wouldn’t be that big a deal. So by the time I hit 50%, I could probably upgrade on a junior category (A300?). That will occur in 2034.

Position in the Hiring Wave

I got on with Delta at a great time (January 2016). Between 2014 to 2022, 48.5% of Delta pilots were hired (6,078 pilots). Of those, 1,883 were hired before me and 4,194 after me. That comes out to 15% of the pilot force hired before me and 33.5% have been hired after me.

At UPS, the hiring wave has been going on for some time. Between 2014 to now, ~1,379 have been hired. That’s 44% of the pilot force. Evan though the average UPS new hire is 43 (three years older than me), these pilots will be senior to me for the majority of my career. I’m not sure if hiring's at UPS will continue just to match retirements or for growth as well. Assuming it’s just to match mandatory retirements, it will take 13 years for me to reach the 50% point at UPS versus 4 years to reach the 50% at Delta.

QOL (Commuting vs in Domicile)

The commute from SDF to ATL is relatively easy. We must have a primary and back-up flight to work. Currently there’s an LOA for positive space commuting that goes through next year, which has been nice but that’s not going to last. So I figure on average, I’ll spend 240 hours a year commuting to/from work. That comes out to 250 days over the next 25 years! That’s a lot of time doing work stuff and not getting paid for it. If I spent those 240 hours each year working at UPS instead, that would be worth about $2.0 million in career earnings!

QOL comparison:

1. Driving to work versus flying- UPS wins

2. Pax versus boxes- UPS wins

3. Layover good times- Not really sure on this one. Leaning toward Delta though.

4. Time off each month- UPS wins

5. Getting requested days off- Delta wins due to seniority

6. Fatigue/night flying- Delta wins

7. Flexibility/options (sim instructor, premium pay, etc)- UPS wins

8. Stability- UPS wins

9. Ease of flying- UPS wins (flight attendants, medical emergencies, pax issues, finding smooth air, #15 in the cue versus #1 for the visual)

10. Future threats- Amazon, ME3, recession, pandemic, etc- toss up

11. Culture- Delta wins. UPS’s management/labor relationship doesn’t bother me though. When I leave work, I’m not thinking about it again until it’s time to show up again.

Preferred Trip Type:

Any south-of-the-border, on the beach, 20+ hour resort layover is on the top line of my PBS monthly bid. Pre-COVID, I was getting 2 to 3 of these a month. I heard the A300 is most likely for this (at least out of SDF), so that was top of my dream sheet.

Pay

I spent a lot of time working spreadsheet numbers to compare career earnings between Delta and UPS. Here are the assumptions I made:

-Pay rates: current for UPS and Delta (For UPS, I added the 4% increase effective 1 September)

-UPS upgrade year: 2034; Delta Upgrade year: 2029

-Retirement year (mandatory): 2046

-UPS ALV 75 hours; Delta ALV 74 hours

-UPS 13 pay periods; Delta 12 pay periods

-Delta profit sharing 10%

-Delta wide-body upgrade point at the 22 year point (in 2038) which is a 17.5% pay increase

-401K income limit $290,000 and increases by $5,000/year

-401K interest rate of 4%

-401K contribution: Delta 16%, UPS 12% + 4% by me

-No premium pay considered (I figured GS at 200% and JA at 150% would be about a wash)

-UPS sick leave sell back of 36 hours/yr (basically half), starting in year 5 (to allow bank to fill up)



The result in total career compensation (pay + 401K) was about $9.4 million at Delta and $9.3 million at UPS… a wash. That’s not including UPS’s pension. If I assume I live until 80, then that’s worth another $1.66 million at UPS ($4,400 FDA assumed).

Other (Life insurance, disability, health insurance, Union)

-Life insurance: Delta wins hands down with 2500 times the highest pay rate which comes out to just under $900,000 at no cost. UPS tops out at $100,000 unless you want to pay more.

-Disability: Delta wins cost wise with DPMA at .4% of earnings. I’m not exactly sure how UPS’s is calculated but looking at a buddy’s pay stub, he’s paying about 2% for long-term disability.

-Health insurance: UPS wins easily

-Union dues: UPS wins at 1.5% versus 1.85% at Delta.

If you made this far, thanks for taking the time to read all of this!

Originally Posted by Otterbox

You’re never going to spend an extra $1.5million on airline tickets for you and your family when you lose the travel benefits at DAL.

Originally Posted by dera

In other words, UPS would allow you to travel in private jets for all your travel needs, in lieu of standby at Delta and end up with the same amount of money in the end.

Originally Posted by C17B74

No hats, lids, covers whatever and your tie at the minimum can be released. That should tip the scale… just speaking for myself.