Leaving Delta for UPS?- 2021
09-09-2021, 07:22 PM
#61
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 923
Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr
No offense, but who in the pax business hasn’t had to sweat furloughs in the last year. Some places were more blunt about it (AA) than others (UA), but all of my friends at the legacies and LCCs were making financial plans for furlough last year. Our management isn’t the friendliest, but I haven’t sweated where my next paycheck would come from since I arrived. I could really care less about their drama so long as the checks don’t bounce and I make industry leading (arguably) pay. I guess I could have gone with FedEx and traded unfriendly management for ALPA drama. Nowhere is perfect that I know of, but I fly commercially to make money, not to have my d!ck sucked. Management can do whatever they want so long as I get what I want out of the relationship. As far as early retirements go, all the guys on my fleet who are going early are focused on what they want to do next, not getting away from here. Do they look forward to never having another long night of flying? Absolutely! But don’t confuse folks who have the financial means to walk away with people so bitter they can’t wait to leave, finances be damned.
Nobody is going to change anyone’s mind. It is what it is.
09-09-2021, 07:50 PM
#62
Social Media retired.
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 777
Woah, guys,
I wasn’t trying to open a worm hole to the B&G beh-tch fest here. Just wanted to give the OP an honest perspective of one of the biggest turn offs of this job. I’ve done plenty of selling UPS to potential hires on these threads, less y’all forget - look at my posts under FTFF 2014/5 - 2018 especially.
Another example if I may?
Ok, so it’s (UPS) is like you’ve been hooking with the hottest chick ever. But, she’s got the herps. Or she farts during sex. Whatever. But there is something there that anyone would prefer it not to be; and something they gotta learn to live with. Sorry know-it-all’s, nothing to do with being miserable or stressed out, just dealing with a bad card in the otherwise excellent hand.
Tnkr brought up another factor to consider: ALPA vs our in-house. Apples and oranges. Not an ALPA hater but I think the IPA is the perfect fit for the UPS pilot group.
To the OP, my sole caution is really on giving up the seniority you built at Delta. Your life isn’t gunna suck with either decision. I hope my posts didn’t sound like a complainer complaining.
Good luck with the decision you’re fortunate to have!
I wasn’t trying to open a worm hole to the B&G beh-tch fest here. Just wanted to give the OP an honest perspective of one of the biggest turn offs of this job. I’ve done plenty of selling UPS to potential hires on these threads, less y’all forget - look at my posts under FTFF 2014/5 - 2018 especially.
Another example if I may?
Ok, so it’s (UPS) is like you’ve been hooking with the hottest chick ever. But, she’s got the herps. Or she farts during sex. Whatever. But there is something there that anyone would prefer it not to be; and something they gotta learn to live with. Sorry know-it-all’s, nothing to do with being miserable or stressed out, just dealing with a bad card in the otherwise excellent hand.
Tnkr brought up another factor to consider: ALPA vs our in-house. Apples and oranges. Not an ALPA hater but I think the IPA is the perfect fit for the UPS pilot group.
To the OP, my sole caution is really on giving up the seniority you built at Delta. Your life isn’t gunna suck with either decision. I hope my posts didn’t sound like a complainer complaining.
Good luck with the decision you’re fortunate to have!
Last edited by FTv3; 09-09-2021 at 08:11 PM. Reason: Typo
09-09-2021, 07:53 PM
#63
Social Media retired.
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by robxjt27
You have no idea what you don’t know. The working conditions that you describe are perceived by you. The majority that I fly with really like the gig and feel fortunate to be here.
Last edited by FTv3; 09-09-2021 at 08:09 PM.
09-09-2021, 08:07 PM
#64
Social Media retired.
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by Mediocre Pilot
MTSUFlyer - thanks for starting this thread! I'm struggling with the same decision, but with two important differences:
1. I'm Year One at Delta
2. My family and I are planning to move to ATL (or SDF) sometime in the next few years to live in domicile. We have no attachment to either city, they are equally appealing (Oldham County looks like Peachtree City with fewer golf carts, more horses)
I'll keep following the thread. For all those saying they wouldn't make the jump in year 6...what about year 1?
My priorities:
- Time at home with family (# days home) & vacation.
- Not hating my job (I can deal with not loving it)
Factors, but lower priorities:
- Seniority: as a year 1 at Delta, there have been MANY hired before me in the last decade. I think UPS wins this one, even with the recent hires in the last 5 years.
- Scheduling: I hate staying up to 5 AM as much as I hate going to bed early to wake up at 5 AM. Coming from a cargo background in the military, I know swapping circadian is worse...but for me, personally, it's not that much worse than starting a 12 hour, 4 leg day with an 0600 showtime.
- Block Time v. Credit: I just discovered this. All my UPS friends are flying 30-40 hours a month...Delta is significantly higher for similar credit.
- Time/ability for teleworking (virtual friendly) side hustles...the airline isn't the only thing I've got going on.
Non Factor:
- Pay, Benefits, Retirement and total compensation is close enough to be a wash (I also did a ton of research and built out the spreadsheet just to arrive at the same conclusion). I know everything about the A/B plans, profit sharing, pension, etc. I'll be happy with my pay at either company.
1. I'm Year One at Delta
2. My family and I are planning to move to ATL (or SDF) sometime in the next few years to live in domicile. We have no attachment to either city, they are equally appealing (Oldham County looks like Peachtree City with fewer golf carts, more horses)
I'll keep following the thread. For all those saying they wouldn't make the jump in year 6...what about year 1?
My priorities:
- Time at home with family (# days home) & vacation.
- Not hating my job (I can deal with not loving it)
Factors, but lower priorities:
- Seniority: as a year 1 at Delta, there have been MANY hired before me in the last decade. I think UPS wins this one, even with the recent hires in the last 5 years.
- Scheduling: I hate staying up to 5 AM as much as I hate going to bed early to wake up at 5 AM. Coming from a cargo background in the military, I know swapping circadian is worse...but for me, personally, it's not that much worse than starting a 12 hour, 4 leg day with an 0600 showtime.
- Block Time v. Credit: I just discovered this. All my UPS friends are flying 30-40 hours a month...Delta is significantly higher for similar credit.
- Time/ability for teleworking (virtual friendly) side hustles...the airline isn't the only thing I've got going on.
Non Factor:
- Pay, Benefits, Retirement and total compensation is close enough to be a wash (I also did a ton of research and built out the spreadsheet just to arrive at the same conclusion). I know everything about the A/B plans, profit sharing, pension, etc. I'll be happy with my pay at either company.
You want to be home? Generally speaking the worst schedule you’re gunna get awarded is being gone 14/28. Live in domicile, get some seniority and you’ll be home even more. Our vacation options only add to that.
Side gig? We have a bunch of guys that have full time side gigs. Not a problem at all.
Not hate the job? Flying is flying. Boxes are easier until they catch on fire. The company is a different beast as has already been discussed ad nauseam. The dominant platitude of this place is: best job in the world working for the worst people possible. I’ve never met anyone who hates the job, most enjoy it, the layovers if nothing else. We get paid way too much to hate it.
Your dislike for back side of the clock stuff might be something you should look into. Search these threads for one titled “night flying,” or “ups schedules.” We’ve detailed them and discussed what it’s like flying them.
Also, might want to search for discussions we’ve had on living in Louisville. Lots of good info from both sides to be found. Not my cup of tea…
Last edited by FTv3; 09-09-2021 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Typo and add last point.
09-09-2021, 09:13 PM
#65
Social Media retired.
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 777
Here’s some schedule threads I could find. There’s more if you dig:
(FEB-MAR) Junior Schedules for NH planning
Really good thread to read!!!
Night flying thread: Night flying
1st half a little dated; 2nd half discusses pay details.
UPS Typical Schedule
Found multiple DAL vs UPS threads too. Mostly regurgitate what’s been discussed here.
Post # 834 = summary on bennies.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ups/98388-2017-ups-hiring-84.html
Post # 19 for dated ANC schedules:
DEN Commute...
(FEB-MAR) Junior Schedules for NH planning
Really good thread to read!!!
Night flying thread: Night flying
1st half a little dated; 2nd half discusses pay details.
UPS Typical Schedule
Found multiple DAL vs UPS threads too. Mostly regurgitate what’s been discussed here.
Post # 834 = summary on bennies.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ups/98388-2017-ups-hiring-84.html
Post # 19 for dated ANC schedules:
DEN Commute...
Last edited by FTv3; 09-09-2021 at 09:40 PM.
09-09-2021, 09:35 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Posts: 1,504
If you fly commercially for money period, it’s just your priority. Sad not to enjoy your work, management, Union, fellow crew members, flying itself, or type of flying night/day, international/domestic and either of those are not all created equal, benefits, freebies, positive space, hell - negative space which EVERY outfit has and will most likely have forever. Of course no one enjoys management and many unions that’s a given, but the culture is important as it can/will cause that toxic work environment. It is good to see strong pilot groups as most pilots are just independent contractors pulling in as much as possible and pull out. We all have our priorities and financial more than most rises to the top due to the freedom it provides now, later or both. Whether you became a pilot for some sort of status in the public eye, financial benefits, travel, curiosity of the Big Blue sky, etc., it doesn’t matter but everyone is happiest when work isn’t really work and your compensated very well for it. Anyone thinking otherwise just has different priorities, kind of skewed though. Such a strong group and I hope the majority has a fantastic time and not just sway to pulling the ejection handles as rapidly as financially possible. Granted it does bode well for those below and may extend your life expectancy so there’s that. There’s always a side… ONElife folks, 1Life!
09-10-2021, 02:12 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by C2078
So let’s see… constantly getting shorted, unable to change schedule due to denials my scheduling, BV days pretty much worthless, always having to watch what you say outside the cockpit, scheduling constantly violating the contract, etc. it doesn’t matter if you work 10 or 30 days a month, at some point you are affected. Throw in the mix our horrific schedules (unless you are super senior and get something decent)…
Good for you guys that think everything is rosy.
FYI, married 25 years with a great life outside of work, great kids, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
There is a reason we are seeing retirements under 65 tick up, have flown with 2 in the last month and half, it ain’t because it’s all balloons and ponies. Lots of people are fed up.
Good for you guys that think everything is rosy.
FYI, married 25 years with a great life outside of work, great kids, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
There is a reason we are seeing retirements under 65 tick up, have flown with 2 in the last month and half, it ain’t because it’s all balloons and ponies. Lots of people are fed up.
Fortunately, every pax carrier in the country will be hiring thousands of pilots in the coming years. I’m sure you’ll have no problem getting hired elsewhere and putting your miserable life at UPS in the rear view mirror. I seriously wish you better luck in whatever you do- stay or go. You seem miserable in your short time here.
09-10-2021, 02:21 PM
#69
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 923
Originally Posted by CL300
You must have awful luck, I don’t know anyone who experiences what you do. Seriously, if this is your work life at Brown, it sounds like a total anomaly. Most people have an occasional issue and it’s frustrating dealing with the company to make it right, but it’s certainly not exclusive to UPS. We are all cogs in a big wheel to make UPS money. They don’t care about us, and neither does management at FedEx, United, Delter, etc.
Fortunately, every pax carrier in the country will be hiring thousands of pilots in the coming years. I’m sure you’ll have no problem getting hired elsewhere and putting your miserable life at UPS in the rear view mirror. I seriously wish you better luck in whatever you do- stay or go. You seem miserable in your short time here.
Fortunately, every pax carrier in the country will be hiring thousands of pilots in the coming years. I’m sure you’ll have no problem getting hired elsewhere and putting your miserable life at UPS in the rear view mirror. I seriously wish you better luck in whatever you do- stay or go. You seem miserable in your short time here.
09-10-2021, 02:34 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by C2078
The proverbial “there is the door if you don’t like it”. Yeah, it’s all balloons and ponies here.
It’s not balloons and ponies here, but it ain’t bad either. I have occasional issues that come up, but it’s only one or two per year. A phone call or two usually solves the problem and I move on with life and don’t dwell on the issue.
I have friends at the big four pax carriers that would give body parts to be here rather than there. They all have their problems, you just need to decide which problems are more palatable for your lifestyle.
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