View Poll Results: Will the TA Pass?
Yes
244
75.08%
No
81
24.92%
Voters: 325. You may not vote on this poll
Will It Pass?
09-28-2022, 02:00 PM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,902
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
I did read the TA summary, and listened to the podcasts. As you explain it, is not the way its written. It's the average of 5 airlines. UA, DL, WN, AA. JB (IF they have an agreement) By Sept. 1, '23. 3 of those airlines are closer to a TA than 2 of them. 3 of them would have to exceed $350 in the next 11 months for us to see a bump above our 4% increase for Sept, '23. You're trying to tell me that if DL gets a big rate increase within 11 mos. we get a rate increase, even if the other 4 are still negotiating? Nope. It'll be an average of 4 airlines (JB excluded) in which case we get our sub inflationary 4%. If I'm wrong in understanding this, please show me.
Case 1 - No legacy gets a contract. Alaska #1
Caae 2 - Only 1 legacy gets a contract. You’re #2 behind them.
Case 3 - 2 airlines get a contract. Depending on their payrate, yours may go up after averaging all 5. Regardless, you’re no worse than #3.
Case 4 - Big 3 get a contract, not SW or B6. You get averaged of the 5, your payrate goes higher than current AS TA book.
Case 5 - All 5 get a TA by then. You get the avg of all 5. Our pay goes up big time.
What scenario do you not like?
09-28-2022, 02:45 PM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
You know, I hope you're right. In the same sense, I hope your yes vote keeps you warm at night when you look back and realize we squandered our once in a career opportunity to, as Chickenlittle...whoops, I mean Chinkenfinger, would say, "have our cake and eat it too".
I am gone for real!
Last edited by OTZeagle1; 09-28-2022 at 03:10 PM.
09-28-2022, 04:04 PM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,902
Originally Posted by Pedantillious
Shy… case 4 not accurate. If B6 doesn’t have a contract they aren’t counted. If big 3 get raise but not WN, we get pulled up IF the average of those four is higher… IF.
I don’t mind any of those scenarios.
I don’t mind any of those scenarios.
09-28-2022, 06:07 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: This side of the dirt.
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by IAHPILOT
Yes I hope so. Im voting yes. Great overall contract with rules that work together to greatly improve everything especially QOL, reserve, scheduling and scope. I don’t want to wait for an unknown period of time for another TA with an unknown value.
Just remember bro, ALPA has counseling resources available if the burden of guilt becomes more than you can bear. 😉😂
09-28-2022, 06:12 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,022
Originally Posted by CordovaCA
Why does everyone keep saying this as if it's a BAD THING?? Ohh nooo delta might beat our rates by 5 dollars poor us. We have a snap up. It would be a GREAT THING. I hope they get 700/hr for goodness sake.
09-28-2022, 07:51 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Ok, using your example. If Delta gets the $350 and none of the other airlines get a TA well then you’re #2 behind DL and ahead of AA, UA, SW, and B6 who are still in the 285 range until their new contacts.
Case 1 - No legacy gets a contract. Alaska #1
Caae 2 - Only 1 legacy gets a contract. You’re #2 behind them.
Case 3 - 2 airlines get a contract. Depending on their payrate, yours may go up after averaging all 5. Regardless, you’re no worse than #3.
Case 4 - Big 3 get a contract, not SW or B6. You get averaged of the 5, your payrate goes higher than current AS TA book.
Case 5 - All 5 get a TA by then. You get the avg of all 5. Our pay goes up big time.
What scenario do you not like?
Case 1 - No legacy gets a contract. Alaska #1
Caae 2 - Only 1 legacy gets a contract. You’re #2 behind them.
Case 3 - 2 airlines get a contract. Depending on their payrate, yours may go up after averaging all 5. Regardless, you’re no worse than #3.
Case 4 - Big 3 get a contract, not SW or B6. You get averaged of the 5, your payrate goes higher than current AS TA book.
Case 5 - All 5 get a TA by then. You get the avg of all 5. Our pay goes up big time.
What scenario do you not like?
Case 3. those 2 airlines would have to have major increases in order to cancel out the bottom 2 for us to see a raise above 4%.
Case 4. Those 3 airlines still have to hit $340 to cancel out the 4th.
Case 5 is the only scenario where we might see an increase above $318 in '23.
Remember, this all has to happen in 11 months
it was designed to fail.
09-28-2022, 08:02 PM
#158
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
Yup our bonus program sucks… during COVID when we we were losing 700 million a year, I got two bonuses averaging 26k a year… AA DA WN UA all got ZERO!.. remember that when you complain about retro!
Great thing is you are paying it forward with your full throttle YES vote to the team...not to AS pilots, of course.
No, the real winners (just behind the Company) will be AS Flight Attendants. See, AS pilots are truly deserving of massive gains over our tepid CBA...and the MEC delivered very sizable gains. But to vote in this TA as it is will be a gift to everyone else within AAG. There is money left by on the table and the notion we will be worse in the end to send our NC back to the table is the biggest fantasy of all. That is their mission...get the best deal possible. The NC was at the table and we ended up with a strike authorization. An indictment against the NC? Hardly...but that overwhelmingly got us the TA of today. So...can you not believe to hold out for more is TOTALLY out of reach? All it takes is a NO. Our team goes back and hammers out the ends the Company previously balked at.
Otherwise, vote YES and be an early ambassador for the FAs rejection of their TA1. It will be pilot money left on the table to finance their TA2.
....and we will be negotiating at the table still in 2026 wondering why grievances are delayed, the Company took our 3 year contract and made it 5 anyway while our contract didn’t meet all our 2019 needs in 2022.
Ask for more...it’s there.
09-28-2022, 08:09 PM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,902
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
cases 1 and 2 we get 4% which is below inflation. Thats a problem.
Case 3. those 2 airlines would have to have major increases in order to cancel out the bottom 2 for us to see a raise above 4%.
Case 4. Those 3 airlines still have to hit $340 to cancel out the 4th.
Case 5 is the only scenario where we might see an increase above $318 in '23.
Remember, this all has to happen in 11 months
it was designed to fail.
Remember, this all has to happen in 11 months
it was designed to fail.
Keep in mind, if this TA goes through then 306 was already done Sept 1 of this year. 318 would be 11 months away (2023), and 331 would be 1 yr, 11 months away (2024).
What's the likeliness and timeline of the other 5 carriers getting their contracts done anytime soon? I see this TA as being a solid improvement that lets us ride whatever the heck it is this economy is going to become for the next 12-18 months.
09-28-2022, 08:22 PM
#160
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
When you always lose, you get used to it, you expect it, sometimes you can’t even see it, when you finally win. Go to the road shows, listen, ask. You still get your vote, vote what you believe. We are all never going to agree on everything. What kind of a world would that be anyway, we would be like robots, we would never see change. Think about this though, Do you think your more thought out or meticulous than WM, better at seeing the big picture, with more integrity than GT, smarter than CG, and more of a contrarian and more cynical than RO ? But yes, all four lost their minds and settled because of contract fatigue? Not saying your wrong, maybe your right. Go, be respectful, listen, and in the end just vote!
I am gone for real!
I am gone for real!
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
Yup our bonus program sucks… during COVID when we we were losing 700 million a year, I got two bonuses averaging 26k a year… AA DA WN UA all got ZERO!.. remember that when you complain about retro!
Great thing is you are paying it forward with your full throttle YES vote to the team...not to AS pilots, of course.
No, the real winners (just behind the Company) will be AS Flight Attendants. See, AS pilots are truly deserving of massive gains over our tepid CBA...and the MEC delivered very sizable gains. But to vote in this TA as it is will be a gift to everyone else within AAG. There is money left by on the table and the notion we will be worse in the end to send our NC back to the table is the biggest fantasy of all. That is their mission...get the best deal possible. The NC was at the table and we ended up with a strike authorization. An indictment against the NC? Hardly...but that overwhelmingly got us the TA of today. So...can you not believe to hold out for more is TOTALLY out of reach? All it takes is a NO. Our team goes back and hammers out the ends the Company previously balked at.
Otherwise, vote YES and be an early ambassador for the FAs rejection of their TA1. It will be pilot money left on the table to finance their TA2.
....and we will be negotiating at the table still in 2026 wondering why grievances are delayed, the Company took our 3 year contract and made it 5 anyway while our contract didn’t meet all our 2019 needs in 2022.
Ask for more...it’s there.
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