Cruz5350

United’s reserve policy can convert you to go sit field standby at the airport and their global reserve if you’re a commuter has the potential to impact your QOL quite a bit as I’ve been told with no first hand experience myself, but that’s what drives folks to avoid upgrade over there. At Delta our reserve rules that we’ll get are quite a bit different in fact as it already stands a lot of folks choose reserve over a line so explain that to me? Never happened at Alaska unless you couldn’t hold a particular day off or holiday and reserve or OF was your only
option. It also isn’t going to take 5-6 years to hold a line should you want it since it already doesn’t take that long, now it might be that long to get weekends and holidays coupled with summer vacations but that’s just the way it goes, doesn’t change the fact that there’s 1yr CA’s elsewhere making more than topped out service captains at AS. You also won’t see a lot of the senior FO’s especially WB switch to the left seat because the pay rates now are incredibly good coupled with work rules that essentially bring you within a stones throw of what you’d make as a CA anyways. Time will tell on how the new reserve rules work out at DL but I’m going to venture a guess that reserve will trend more senior. Point is there’s options that just don’t exist at AS that the big 3 have and AS should be paying more to keep and retain folks. Show the math on that $330 btw…

KnockKnock

Speaking of picking and choosing opposing realities. How do you and your fellow yes voters come to the conclusion that a company which refuses to negotiate a rate such as DAL's when such a rate exists, will give that same or very similar rate in an out of contract raise, due to facing the very industry environment, which you claim they refuse to face in the first place.

You're basically saying what I and others are saying. "The company, would have/will be, forced to acknowledge a new reality regarding CBA's". You're just saying it will happen later and outside of negotiations, while I'm saying had we waited, it would have happened sooner, during negotiations and by jumping the gun, we cost ourselves a lot of money which we cannot recoup.

ShyGuy

We are the union. We're one entity. If we sold out, they sold out. You don't agree with that, but that's my take.


Your second point contradicts your third point. You just said they don't negotiate in good faith, don't care, etc, but now in the third paragraph you say why wouldn't they bump us up?

This is all guessing on your end. That when Delta has 337, AS would trip to give you 320. Maybe, maybe not. So the 18% would have liked to have directed our NC to STALL our negotiations to wait and see somebody else go first. This is what we call being Monday morning quarterback.

ShyGuy

I said no such thing. I said 4/5 and 5/5 new contracts signed by Sept 1 will give us a snap up this year. And Sept 1 2024 will defnitely be higher than 331 due to the snap ups. Our next payraise after that will be via a new pilot contract.

Your guess of stalling on purpose is nothing more than a look-back at the situation now that it unfolded the way it did. Amazing your side is now calling for stalling MORE as the proper answer to our negotiation strategy. On one hand, wear orange and march because the company dragged out this for years. But now you wanted the pilots to drag it out even longer. I have to live in reality today, not revisionist history of what-could-have-beens.

GoodJet

There is a thread titled Hawiian TA. It has 56 posts and was active two days ago. It has about the same number of positive and negative posts as here on APC.

KnockKnock

I'm aware, we make up the union. The LEC, MEC and NC are there to represent us and act in accordance with our wishes. They don't make unilateral decisions without our imput. So when you say the only reason we're not making $280/hr is because the NC negotiated a better deal, you're wrong. WE, the pilot group, said $280/hr was an insult. THEY, the NC, went back to the company and told them WE, the pilot group, weren't having it. That's how that works.

Why do you conflate voting no for a CBA because it doesn't reflect our full value with stalling contract talks? I didn't say anything about stalling. I have been a NO vote since I saw the AIP based on the content of the AIP. Had we voted no and sent it back, would we have benefited from DAL setting the benchmark two months later? Yes, Much like UAL and AA are going to benefit. But that's not the reason we should have sent it back. It should have gone back because it didn't fully reflect our value.

My second and third paragraph go hand in hand. No, AS doesn't negotiate in good faith. They only act when forced. A no vote from us is bad PR on the heels of a lot more bad PR. Add in DALs new numbers and AS would then be in a situation of being forced to up their offer. Just like they were forced by Javits during the JCBA because AA gave 6%. UAL and AA managements have publicly acknowledged they have to up their offers to better reflect the new landscape.
Im sure you recognize this and only arguing for the sake of arguing but, whatever blows your hair back.

ShyGuy

I guess we’ll all entitled to our “what ifs” scenarios. I appreciate your confidence of how AS would have been forced to give you Delta. This is going nowhere. Enjoy your snap ups and let the money roll in.

LJCub

How predicable. No real rebuttal because there is none. You know he's spot on.

And please stop with the 2022 vs 2023 line of reasoning why our DOS rate is where it's at vs others. You'd still be using it if we signed on 12/31 and DL signed on 1/1. That's just how your logic works right? Just admit that as it all plays out, we're going to be much further behind in a few years compared to where we were in 8/2022.

Is $306 nice? Sure is.We deserve more though. And if everyone thought the way you did, we'd be at $280 without gains. I guarantee you that

All Bizniz

QOL, not Pay (not saying it wasn't important), was the most important concern for AS pilots polled, and understandably so, and yes, the contract was that bad.

The new contract addressed that in a substantial way, so 82 percent made the strategic decision, given the pay-rate SNAP UP provisions, to lock in those non-monetory gains NOW, rather than remain subjugated to the dog schlit conditions of the old one for even a monent longer.

I doubt there's any regrets or hand wringing going on within the group of YES voters. This was a QOL contract. Plain and simple.

Avgeek7248

only downside with those quick upgrades is it’s in NY. And not many want to be the plug in NY or stuck in NY in general.