gooddeal

Ok...before this gets out of hand, let me establish a few things:

- I am not against a scope clause
- I do not unilaterally trust management
- I respect the pilot employees choices and sacrifices who have paved the way to present day

But looking forward, a discussion on what are the goals of the pilot group through future contracts is what I'm addressing. As far as the company goes, replacing 737s for say ERJ flying is not a very realistic option...both as a business practice or towards the profitability of the investors. Taking emotion away, the demonstrated goals to investors (the principal benefactors of their decisions) does not include reducing the image of an independent airline to regional operation. Decisions in the last 2 years have wholly demonstrated this. While DL is using regional carriers to push into AS market share, AAG is looking to respond in kind with QX...now pitched as "are you in or out" to the QX employees. Yet with even our market and operations growing at unprecedented rates for AS, now we are worried about our jobs at AS requiring scope? I don't see that as our immediate threat which requires a line in the sand during contract negotiations.

ogilthorpe

Fair enough, I totally understand that we both have the best interests of the pilot group in mind and are simply talking about what we should prioritize. I think in the long term (the 25 years I have left) scope is incredibly important, I can understand how people would prioritize something else first.

Also, the company is on offering Horizon a "chance to compete" for that flying. QX managements says that entails concessions for every large employee group, beginning with a 14 percent pay cut from the pilots. I put the chance of those airframes ending up at QX close to zero.

2loud

Do you even work for Alaska Airlines? If so, do you even know the details of the scope language in our current contract? Better yet, were you born yesterday?
45 RJs flying (by 2017) mid range runs that the 737s used to/can fly is not considered "job disappearance"? 30% of AAG's fleet could be RJs, that is if QX will get to do the flying, and only if they let the company jam a paycut up their a$$. How would you feel if you were a Horizon guy right now? More realistically speaking, Skywest will be doing the flying given the $hit ultimatum given to the QX pilot group by this air group. Corporate America at its finest! With nicer, bigger, longer range RJs coming online that are flown by pilots who are paid a fraction of main line pilots, do you think that management will stop because they are reasonable and ethical human beings with a soul? You are absolutely right, they do care about their investors and only their investors. Why? It's the hand that feeds them and the labor group is just that-hired hand.
The company keeps throwing turd carrots on a stick to this ignorant pilot group by promising growth and these pilots willingly eat them. They tell the pilot group that the RJs will feed the -800/-900ERs and that if the RJ routes grow in demand, they'll put the 737s on those routes. How's that working out to our advantage so far, genius? That's right.....we have no leg to stand on because we have NO scope that's worth a damn!

CassinAK

I am an Alaska pilot. There are numerous reasons scope is important and supports all the other things you believe are more important than scope. Without scope what leverage do we have to get better work rules? So we demand better work rules and the company says take this contact or we bring The EMB-195 on at skywest then we lose on both work rules and scope. Also at anytime if Alaska wanted to bring on a wide body they could just start a new international division of the Air Group unless we accept a contract flying them for substandard pay. Scope is the back bone from which we build a better contract. We as a pilot group need to fight for this.

F15Cricket

If you are based in the Lower 48, do you realize that in ANC, the Q400 does 7 of the 9 daily ANC-FAI flights now ... that prior to Mar 2014 were ALL flown by 737s.

With E175s, think it won't happen in southeast?
How about SEA-GEG, or any other shorter flights that we currently have?

I don't think we'll lose jobs, but I do think we'll lose quality of life (more 4-day trips started in 0500 and ending at 2330), and we'll hire fewer pilots.

If the E175 is a good jet, make it part of Alaska Airlines, and pay it the same!

EskimoJoe

All of this complaining is a day late and dollar short. 60% of us bought off on this POS and this pilot group is to blame for it. We settled for 20k a year less than Bankrupt AMR at the time. Think about that. By the time we hit the amendable date, we're 40k a year behind American. Those rates were negotiated while they were BANKRUPT.

Our MEC pushed this POS as hard as they could and 60% decided they were cool with it. We made our bed. I don't blame the company one bit. They aren't here to hold our hands and protect us from ourselves.

Klsytakesit

These guys are not fools......they make damn sure that they are hiring at least 60% yes voters.....all the bullsh.. about core values community service etc are just that......they always have their 60% in every class.....yes voters are always hired over qualified pilots......this crop was planted 30 years ago and they are reaping the benefit and tending the crop

Packrat

Correct. AS has always had very little trouble finding plenty of candidates who are more than willing to accept 92% of the average narrow body pay rate just so they can live in the Pacific NW. And that's with the added management bonus of a contractual no strike clause. That's your history, guys.

It's up to the recent crop of pilots to derail this type of thinking. Just say no, guys.

Mookie

These 30 RJ's are a 35% for me as a senior first officer wanting to upgrade. #therealcostofRj's

Mookie

doug_or

Alright, I'll bite. Is that a thing?