Wow, just wow! Well at least the company will now have to report to the FAA on just how this can happen in 2015. Where are the checks and balances from dispatch to flight crew to station managers, someone(s) has seriously dropped the ball and should be held accountable.

Reminds me of a time sitting on the ground in Pago Pago about 10 years ago, waiting for the notamed field hours of 7am to 7pm as they were repaving sections of the field each night and during preflight at about 6am heard another military jet check in with tower and ask to land, tower told them impossible as asphalt was not ready to go for another hour.
Luckily that jet had some reserves and actually diverted over to Western Samoa (about 100 miles away or so) and got some gas before returning to pago pago.
I remember thinking at the time who flies for 5+ hours into the middle of the pacific without reading the notams for the field you intend to land at? Crazy complacency.

 

Yes... Someone should be held accountable. Too bad that's the vp of flight ops and he was in the left seat.

 

Glad to see his fuel policy finally came back to bite him.

 

The irony of that tape is mind boggling. We all remember our long lost ‘Coffee Corners'. Ah, those were the days when we were all about openness and transparency. No third party between us until, of course, those stupid pilots voted in the stupid union. Unless, you didn’t count the army of FH lawyers that runs employee relations. I digress; I can remember someone voicing concern about our then new and improved fuel policy. He (GB) all but called us drama queens.

 

Someone at the office should ask him if he wanted to be a glider pilot...
(but not sure about his sense of humor)

 

I wonder if the 166 folks in back and crew that held total faith in ole Greg's decision making realized, by his own admission, that they "didn't have twenty minutes".

I wonder if they realize that they wouldn't even have made it to Grand Forks if there had been something preventing them from clearing the runway in FAR.

I wonder if Greg thinks about all the lives he put in harm's way as he tried desperately over the radio to make his own failings the ATC guy's, just like he does everyday back at the office.

 

If that flight had departed KLAS on time at 7:05am instead of the actual late departure of 08:25am they would have arrived into KFAR before the airport closed for airshow restrictions. Maybe AAY headquarters knew about the Fargo airport restrictions but figured flight 426 would arrive before the noon shutdown, didn't allow for the possibility of a late departure? But that may be giving them too much credit, plus an on-time departure is an exception to the norm.

FlightAware shows they landed into Fargo at 1:02pm
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAY426

Somewhat surprised that management didn't find a way to charge the passengers a fee for "Viewing a Blue Angels Rehearsal".


Also, are the following FAA fuel rules no longer in effect?

http://lessonslearned.faa.gov/Avianca52/INFO_08004.pdf
(see page 2, paragraph c.)

Reserve Fuel

FAA fuel requirements for flight in IFR conditions state that:

"No person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless it carries enough fuel (considering weather reports and forecasts and weather conditions) to-

Complete the flight to the first airport of intended landing;

Fly from that airport to the alternate airport [if one is required]; and

Fly after that for 45 minutes at normal cruising speed or, for helicopters, fly after that for 30 minutes at normal cruising speed."

 

§13.5 Formal complaints.
(a) Any person may file a complaint with the Administrator with respect to anything done or omitted to be done by any person in contravention of any provision of any Act or of any regulation or order issued under it, as to matters within the jurisdiction of the Administrator. This section does not apply to complaints against the Administrator or employees of the FAA acting within the scope of their employment.

(b) Complaints filed under this section must—

(1) Be submitted in writing and identified as a complaint filed for the purpose of seeking an appropriate order or other enforcement action;

(2) Be submitted to the Federal Aviation Administration, Office of the Chief Counsel, Attention: Enforcement Docket (AGC-10), 800 Independence Avenue, S.W., Washington, DC 20591;

(3) Set forth the name and address, if known, of each person who is the subject of the complaint and, with respect to each person, the specific provisions of the Act or regulation or order that the complainant believes were violated;

(4) Contain a concise but complete statement of the facts relied upon to substantiate each allegation;

(5) State the name, address and telephone number of the person filing the complaint; and

(6) Be signed by the person filing the complaint or a duly authorized representative.

(c) Complaints which do not meet the requirements of paragraph (b) of this section will be considered reports under §13.1.

(d) Complaints which meet the requirements of paragraph (b) of this section will be docketed and a copy mailed to each person named in the complaint.

(e) Any complaint filed against a member of the Armed Forces of the United States acting in the performance of official duties shall be referred to the Secretary of the Department concerned for action in accordance with the procedures set forth in §13.21 of this part.

(f) The person named in the complaint shall file an answer within 20 days after service of a copy of the complaint.

(g) After the complaint has been answered or after the allotted time in which to file an answer has expired, the Administrator shall determine if there are reasonable grounds for investigating the complaint.

(h) If the Administrator determines that a complaint does not state facts which warrant an investigation or action, the complaint may be dismissed without a hearing and the reason for the dismissal shall be given, in writing, to the person who filed the complaint and the person named in the complaint.

(i) If the Administrator determines that reasonable grounds exist, an informal investigation may be initiated or an order of investigation may be issued in accordance with subpart F of this part, or both. Each person named in the complaint shall be advised which official has been delegated the responsibility under §13.3(b) or (c) for conducting the investigation.

(j) If the investigation substantiates the allegations set forth in the complaint, a notice of proposed order may be issued or other enforcement action taken in accordance with this part.

(k) The complaint and other pleadings and official FAA records relating to the disposition of the complaint are maintained in current docket form in the Enforcement Docket (AGC-10), Office of the Chief Counsel, Federal Aviation Administration, 800 Independence Avenue, S.W., Washington, D. C. 20591. Any interested person may examine any docketed material at that office, at any time after the docket is established, except material that is ordered withheld from the public under applicable law or regulations, and may obtain a photostatic or duplicate copy upon paying the cost of the copy.

Ok teamsters: in the event a violation is known, a complaint can be filed. It requires a name of the complainant. In this case, it's the teamsters! Therefore no AAY pilot name on the file to end up being terminated like our most recent captain. Also, maybe abc, nbc, Fox News, CNN, etc should be officially notified.

This is the red warning light: AAY is not operating in the safe interest of the public it carries. When the VP declares a fuel emergency; he must go! This requires an investigation regarding PIC responsibility regarding preflight planning. PIC is responsible for obtaining any and all appropriate information regarding the proposed flight. In this case; published notam information was either overlooked, or ignored by the PIC. This is the PIC who initiated a dangerous fuel policy that professional and competent AAY pilots have protected him for several years by simply adding fuel as necessary directly with the gate or fueler. Now, it's time to place incompetence and a blatant FAA violation where it belongs. Not dispatch: but with the PIC. Since he is also VP......credibility of his position is lost; and he must resign.

Also lets not overlook a very important connection. This is who is on the other side of the pilot contract negotiating table each session. The NMB needs to hear this recording as well. It's all about credibility. Unfortunately( or fortunately depending on the outcome), credibility for the VP is gone.

 

Will Allegiant Be There > Home

Found this site while trying to find more on these two tools.

 

Putting aside the fact that the aircrew didn't read the notams, what is the point in even having dispatchers if they aren't aware of the potential conflicts at a field they are currently dispatching a LATE flight into??

Think of the money they could save if the FAA just allowed them to get rid of dispatchers and make the aircrew responsible for all aspects of every flight. At least the flight crew would know where they stood in the form of back office admin.