2 year contract extension?
06-12-2018, 02:49 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by Saabs
Some will say un implemented contract items.
Some will say some of those items weren’t good for us.
Some will say some of those items were good for us.
Don’t know what’s true and what’s not true in terms of the above.
Regardless Some that think that ACD isn’t good are just downright fools.
Reference every other big boy airline.
Some will say some of those items weren’t good for us.
Some will say some of those items were good for us.
Don’t know what’s true and what’s not true in terms of the above.
Regardless Some that think that ACD isn’t good are just downright fools.
Reference every other big boy airline.
Its a terrible thing.... the whole ACD was used as a straw man. Yes, you are correct, there will not be anymore 10hr slash trips which by the way are less than 10% of our trips. What did we give up? Higher per day productivity for everyone else plus up to 20% 5 day trips in each base. What you don’t realize is that the trip make up will change dramatically. Every trip will average as close to 5:15 per day as possible. That means EVERYONE will
have 14 days off. That includes the senior guys! Don’t think you will be seeing those 8hr day trips anymore. They will be embedded in 5 day trips. You hate 4-5 day trips? Too bad.... they will now make up 80% of the bid pack. Talk to your United and Delta buddies about what happened with their trips once they implemented ACD. They will tell you that they went to 80% 4 day trips. This is what you would call unintended consequences. Just because Delta and United have something, doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily a good thing.
If you take a look at who is flying the vast majority of these red-eye/slash trips, they are reserves. Most (not everyone) trades out of their slash trips and they end up going to reserves. Reserves don’t care about ACD since they don’t break guarantee anyway plus they get an easy trip with a long layover that eats up days of availability. I will agree with you that there is a very small percentage of pilots here that this would help. Those doing Hawaii on the 757 out of PHX and those doing some of the South America layovers our of MIA. But that probably only accounts for 1-2% of our flying. With ACD, everyone (junior and senior) will be made to fly longer trips, and those senior will have less days off. That doesn’t sound like a great deal to me.
06-12-2018, 03:04 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 78
Oh, just an FYI if you want to take a look. Pull up your monthly bid pack and it has a chart with the average credit per day for each fleet in every base. You will see that our average is already above 5:15. Like I said before, 90% of our pilots will see no benefit to ACD abs will probably lose some QOL. Not sure that it’s worth it.
06-12-2018, 04:05 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 584
AUpilot1 gets it, and that's just the downside to the good part of the deal!
The scheduling blank check we have them to pay for it hasn't even been costed out yet. It will be the gift that keeps on giving as we enter section 6.
The scheduling blank check we have them to pay for it hasn't even been costed out yet. It will be the gift that keeps on giving as we enter section 6.
06-12-2018, 04:57 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by aa73
Dude, you’ve crossed the line into delusional territory. Do you just make this crap up or are you really that brainwashed by your PHL/Clt reps?
Not only will ACD be implemented, it will also improve our schedules and result in us having industry leading trip and duty rigs.
You need to stop listening to certain reps with agendas that have nothing to do with facts....and maybe start thanking Dan and those hard working APA volunteers who brought you these improvements.
Back to the OP topic. So, if we get industry leading hotel language, profit sharing, LTD and STD fixes, for a two year extension, I’d say it would pass in a New Jersey minute.
Not only will ACD be implemented, it will also improve our schedules and result in us having industry leading trip and duty rigs.
You need to stop listening to certain reps with agendas that have nothing to do with facts....and maybe start thanking Dan and those hard working APA volunteers who brought you these improvements.
Back to the OP topic. So, if we get industry leading hotel language, profit sharing, LTD and STD fixes, for a two year extension, I’d say it would pass in a New Jersey minute.
As far as getting the items you speak of, thats a tall order.
06-12-2018, 05:06 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by AUpilot1
Its a terrible thing.... the whole ACD was used as a straw man. Yes, you are correct, there will not be anymore 10hr slash trips which by the way are less than 10% of our trips. What did we give up? Higher per day productivity for everyone else plus up to 20% 5 day trips in each base. What you don’t realize is that the trip make up will change dramatically. Every trip will average as close to 5:15 per day as possible. That means EVERYONE will
have 14 days off. That includes the senior guys! Don’t think you will be seeing those 8hr day trips anymore. They will be embedded in 5 day trips. You hate 4-5 day trips? Too bad.... they will now make up 80% of the bid pack. Talk to your United and Delta buddies about what happened with their trips once they implemented ACD. They will tell you that they went to 80% 4 day trips. This is what you would call unintended consequences. Just because Delta and United have something, doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily a good thing.
If you take a look at who is flying the vast majority of these red-eye/slash trips, they are reserves. Most (not everyone) trades out of their slash trips and they end up going to reserves. Reserves don’t care about ACD since they don’t break guarantee anyway plus they get an easy trip with a long layover that eats up days of availability. I will agree with you that there is a very small percentage of pilots here that this would help. Those doing Hawaii on the 757 out of PHX and those doing some of the South America layovers our of MIA. But that probably only accounts for 1-2% of our flying. With ACD, everyone (junior and senior) will be made to fly longer trips, and those senior will have less days off. That doesn’t sound like a great deal to me.
have 14 days off. That includes the senior guys! Don’t think you will be seeing those 8hr day trips anymore. They will be embedded in 5 day trips. You hate 4-5 day trips? Too bad.... they will now make up 80% of the bid pack. Talk to your United and Delta buddies about what happened with their trips once they implemented ACD. They will tell you that they went to 80% 4 day trips. This is what you would call unintended consequences. Just because Delta and United have something, doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily a good thing.
If you take a look at who is flying the vast majority of these red-eye/slash trips, they are reserves. Most (not everyone) trades out of their slash trips and they end up going to reserves. Reserves don’t care about ACD since they don’t break guarantee anyway plus they get an easy trip with a long layover that eats up days of availability. I will agree with you that there is a very small percentage of pilots here that this would help. Those doing Hawaii on the 757 out of PHX and those doing some of the South America layovers our of MIA. But that probably only accounts for 1-2% of our flying. With ACD, everyone (junior and senior) will be made to fly longer trips, and those senior will have less days off. That doesn’t sound like a great deal to me.
Reoccurring nightmare.
06-12-2018, 05:15 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 641
Just a lowly regional guy here but I was reading how our current economic expansion is the second longest in history without a downturn. Next year it will have been the longest period. Parker is just playing the odds that there will be a downturn in the next two years and he can’t afford to give more.
06-12-2018, 05:19 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by AUpilot1
Its a terrible thing.... the whole ACD was used as a straw man. Yes, you are correct, there will not be anymore 10hr slash trips which by the way are less than 10% of our trips. What did we give up? Higher per day productivity for everyone else plus up to 20% 5 day trips in each base. What you don’t realize is that the trip make up will change dramatically. Every trip will average as close to 5:15 per day as possible. That means EVERYONE will
have 14 days off. That includes the senior guys! Don’t think you will be seeing those 8hr day trips anymore. They will be embedded in 5 day trips. You hate 4-5 day trips? Too bad.... they will now make up 80% of the bid pack. Talk to your United and Delta buddies about what happened with their trips once they implemented ACD. They will tell you that they went to 80% 4 day trips. This is what you would call unintended consequences. Just because Delta and United have something, doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily a good thing.
If you take a look at who is flying the vast majority of these red-eye/slash trips, they are reserves. Most (not everyone) trades out of their slash trips and they end up going to reserves. Reserves don’t care about ACD since they don’t break guarantee anyway plus they get an easy trip with a long layover that eats up days of availability. I will agree with you that there is a very small percentage of pilots here that this would help. Those doing Hawaii on the 757 out of PHX and those doing some of the South America layovers our of MIA. But that probably only accounts for 1-2% of our flying. With ACD, everyone (junior and senior) will be made to fly longer trips, and those senior will have less days off. That doesn’t sound like a great deal to me.
have 14 days off. That includes the senior guys! Don’t think you will be seeing those 8hr day trips anymore. They will be embedded in 5 day trips. You hate 4-5 day trips? Too bad.... they will now make up 80% of the bid pack. Talk to your United and Delta buddies about what happened with their trips once they implemented ACD. They will tell you that they went to 80% 4 day trips. This is what you would call unintended consequences. Just because Delta and United have something, doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily a good thing.
If you take a look at who is flying the vast majority of these red-eye/slash trips, they are reserves. Most (not everyone) trades out of their slash trips and they end up going to reserves. Reserves don’t care about ACD since they don’t break guarantee anyway plus they get an easy trip with a long layover that eats up days of availability. I will agree with you that there is a very small percentage of pilots here that this would help. Those doing Hawaii on the 757 out of PHX and those doing some of the South America layovers our of MIA. But that probably only accounts for 1-2% of our flying. With ACD, everyone (junior and senior) will be made to fly longer trips, and those senior will have less days off. That doesn’t sound like a great deal to me.
Senior guys will still get a lot more days off. Junior guys get more days off. Sorry you can’t understand that. I want to work my butt off while at work and have more time off at home. Heaven forbid we get industry standard rigs
06-12-2018, 05:42 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by Saabs
So we would be the only airline where everyone gets the same amount of days off. Got it ......
Senior guys will still get a lot more days off. Junior guys get more days off. Sorry you can’t understand that. I want to work my butt off while at work and have more time off at home. Heaven forbid we get industry standard rigs
Senior guys will still get a lot more days off. Junior guys get more days off. Sorry you can’t understand that. I want to work my butt off while at work and have more time off at home. Heaven forbid we get industry standard rigs
I don’t think you get it. Over 90% of our pilots get greater than 5:15 ACD already. Why would a pilot who is not in the bottom 10% need ACD? Go talk to some of the AWE guys about how their trips were built when they had 5hr ACD. Hint.... exactly 5hrs per day. That’s for everyone..... Jr and Senior. That’s 16 days per month for 84hrs. Also, hope you like 5 day trips. You already better be a fairly senior Capt or else you will be doing them in your career. The only way to avoid this disaster is to bid widebody now.
06-12-2018, 05:49 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by AUpilot1
I don’t think you get it. Over 90% of our pilots get greater than 5:15 ACD already. Why would a pilot who is not in the bottom 10% need ACD? Go talk to some of the AWE guys about how their trips were built when they had 5hr ACD. Hint.... exactly 5hrs per day. That’s for everyone..... Jr and Senior. That’s 16 days per month for 84hrs. Also, hope you like 5 day trips. You already better be a fairly senior Capt or else you will be doing them in your career. The only way to avoid this disaster is to bid widebody now.
Look at other airlines. United EWR 737 Has about 50% 4 days, little to no 5 days, turns for senior guys, and two days and three days. Many 4 days worth 25+. At AA the majority seem to be 20-22 hours right now without the rig.
I live in base and am fine with 4-5 day trips as long as I fly my butt off.
I recommend you read AW posts on his research in CNR.
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