aa73

“ Its possible the misunderstanding may go hand in hand with the lack of SOP on the 737.” Direct quote from you a couple of pages back.

Ok, so you’re on the 737. Why didn’t you say so sooner? I don’t know how long you’ve been on it, but since you make the statement above, I’m now wondering how and why you are attributing that list to “non SOP items.” They are ALL SOPs and they are described in the expanded sections of OM1 as well as the trigger and flows cards. I haven’t encountered one F/O in my 3 years as a 737 CA that was confused as to who did what - everything has always been very clear as to the division of duties, what gets called out and when, and who does it.
For example, You mentioned what happens if the HUD is not yet set on taxi out? Simple, the checklist stops at that point as dictated by the triggers, flows and checklist discipline. Once the HUD is deployed the checklist continues. That is how it reads in in OM1 (under checklist reading/performing/discipline) and how it is taught by the Sim Ps and CKA.
Who briefs the takeoff? The PF and the PM, both using the threat forward model. The PM starts with threats and the PF completes the rest of it. As described in OM1 and FOM, per SOPs.
What is the response to a checklist item? It’s all verbatim, to a T, in the OM1 under expanded checklist.
Who starts the APU? Whoever gets to it first, but it is a CA flow.
When is the before landing checklist completed? After completing/closing out all the tabs on the before landing mechanical checklist, as announced by “Before Landing Checklist complete.” SOP per OM1

If those don’t sound like SOPs to you then I’m at a loss, dude.

Al Czervik

Swing and a miss. Check the FO’s after landing flow. It ok though, in 2 years not one CA has got all those right and I’ve only had one guy use the correct procedure with the APU. Your FO’s may not be confused about who does what. They (if they care/know) just sit there and watch you do it the wrong way. They’re used to and expect the deviance. Unless you just went through the manuals you seem much more SOP than the norm. I’ve seen a few planes here and I think I’m making an informed call. Like I said.. it’s not dangerous it’s just not SOP. I’m done arguing antics.

Armyguy

Al is right if he is saying CPT's dont do it like the OM says. He is SPOT on in that case. I dont correct anyone anymore, it would be too exhausting, I just roll with it and try and remember what the book says.

R57 relay

You didn't answer my question. What drove this post? I don't see a lot of issues with intersection takeoffs, so not sure what is causing you, or the industry, issues. Is it a specific airport/runway? If so, maybe we can get some input to our ops people. At certain airports the intersection data is given first.

What is the specific issue?

aa73

I thought you meant at the gate, I missed the “after landing” part, my bad. It’s a CA flow at the gate, but if the FO gets to the plane first and it’s hot, I’d absolutely want him her to start it. So I guess in that case we’d be deviating from SOPs but who in their right mind wouldn’t want their FO to proactively cool/warm the cabin early?
After landing, yes it’s an FO flow. So what I’m getting at is, it’s all described verbatim in the expanded OM1 and the T&F cards. Are you implying that CAs are starting the APU after landing, instead of the FO? If that’s the case then yes you’d have a point.

What about all the other items in your list that I answered? In your experience are guys not adhering to those? In my time in the left seat ever since T&Fs came out, Everyone’s job and division of duties is clearly spelled out and pretty much everyone adheres to it.

Armyguy

Listen, in the last month I flew with a guy who never called for the checklist (he wanted me to "just run that thing, quit asking") even though it specifically says its the cpt who calls for the bold checklists (bold isnt correct term but I am too lazy to look up the term used).

I have never started the APU after landing, Ever, never.

Before takeoff checklist? half the guys call for it when we are #1 like the book says, the other half are waiting on takeoff clearance/or lineup and wait clearance.

HUD? Ha, thats all over the map too. Briefings prior to before start checklist? that 50/50. review of performance date? say 35%. Callouts all over the map. In a previous life I was pretty anal about stuff like this and even atc calls but I was in charge of standardization so I had to be, here? I am the gear guy. IDK, I could be a jerkoff FO and try and correct every little thing but at the end of the day it is about getting the job done with a cooperative cockpit environment. If a CPT wants to do stuff his way I am surely not going to ruin a 4 day because of it.

Al is right though, no standardized at all, maybe on paper but where the rubber meets the road? nope

aa73

Armyguy, if that really is the case then Al Czervik is absolutely correct.
But I do not run my flight deck that way, at all - I run it the way the book calls for it, per SOPs. That is why I responded the way I did, because I assumed all 737 crews run it the way it says to.
The few times I’ve j/s on our 737s I just didn’t see what you are describing either.. they were all pretty standard.
But if that’s the case, why not send in an ASAP and/or APA safety debrief?

Armyguy

Because it could just be my domicile plus they are all just small issues in the grand scheme of life. Are you a cka?

aa73

Nope, just a regular line schmuck

aa73

Al Cz, check your PMs.

filler