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Hang in there folks.
I was never furloughed, but US Air was on death's door for years while my kids were young. My wife didn't work. Ended up going through a divorce at the low point, 2004 after taking more than a 60% pay cut from A320 captain back to A320 F/O, with all the pay rate cuts. Retirement terminated, 60% of net worth gone. At times the walls seemed to be closing in. One day one of my favorite captains told me something very simple "Remember, even this is only temporary." Those simple words helped me realize that I had no idea what was around the corner and I couldn't do anything about it. I would adapt. I'm not saying this to minimize that anyone is facing, it just helped me. I will be pulling for ALL our pilots and will do what I can to keep us all. PM if you needs someone to talk to, and please use Project Wingman if needed.They are a great resource and have helped many pilots here. Take care. |
Originally Posted by FetaCheese
(Post 3098214)
Yeah, I don't get some of these older generation guys. It's almost like they want everyone to go through as much suffering as possible to make themselves feel better.
And I'm one of those in a bad position. We don't live outside our means at all. Still live in the same house we bought when I was a regional FO. Down to one car payment, one credit card, and one son in private school. If the worst happens and I get furloughed though, I'm done. House will have to be sold. Son pulled from school. I've been looking for jobs outside aviation-because that's all we can realistically hope for-and I'll be lucky to make $17 an hour. That's just a little over $2,000 a month. Assuming my wife (who'll have to go back to work) makes the same..that's a whopping $4,000 per month. Working a 9 to 5 or retail job. Yeah..it's BS. And the lack of sympathy makes it worse. The feeling that nobody outside the furlough group gives a F* twists the knife even further. This isn't a game. It isn't funny. Senior guys making north of $300,000 for multiple years now wouldn't miss a beat by lowering the ALV, or lowering RSV guarantee.. anything that would save their fellow pilots. But no. They'd rather drink their beers, trim their walrus moustaches while chuckling about us "paying our dues". I can't wait for our generation of pilots to replace them. I will be ****ed if the union takes any concessions in an effort to avoid furloughs. Temporary reductions in min guarantee, average line value etc only create new starting points for the permanent reductions on a bankruptcy contract. The company can buy out early retirements, offer bids for reduced pay lines or whatever accommodations the union and company agree to so long as the pilots are individually bidding that option. There should be not a single penny or any accommodation for reduced compensation agreed to that affects the entire pilot group. Those concessions take decades to get back regardless of what SnapBack language is stuck in the wording. Frankly you have put yourself in a tough spot. Why did you make your income as a pilot the sole means a of supporting your family? That’s just really... optimistic and naive to be honest. I do have a mustache but I drink whiskey instead of the beer... concession do not prevent furloughs. |
Originally Posted by rdneckpilot
(Post 3099355)
Im 41 years old and sit 15 from the bottom on a seniority list. My new hire training was suspended in April and the only reason I’m still on payroll is because of welfare(CARES).
I will be ****ed if the union takes any concessions in an effort to avoid furloughs. Temporary reductions in min guarantee, average line value etc only create new starting points for the permanent reductions on a bankruptcy contract. The company can buy out early retirements, offer bids for reduced pay lines or whatever accommodations the union and company agree to so long as the pilots are individually bidding that option. There should be not a single penny or any accommodation for reduced compensation agreed to that affects the entire pilot group. Those concessions take decades to get back regardless of what SnapBack language is stuck in the wording. Frankly you have put yourself in a tough spot. Why did you make your income as a pilot the sole means a of supporting your family? That’s just really... optimistic and naive to be honest. I do have a mustache but I drink whiskey instead of the beer... concession do not prevent furloughs. |
Originally Posted by rdneckpilot
(Post 3099355)
Im 41 years old and sit 15 from the bottom on a seniority list. My new hire training was suspended in April and the only reason I’m still on payroll is because of welfare(CARES).
I will be ****ed if the union takes any concessions in an effort to avoid furloughs. Temporary reductions in min guarantee, average line value etc only create new starting points for the permanent reductions on a bankruptcy contract. The company can buy out early retirements, offer bids for reduced pay lines or whatever accommodations the union and company agree to so long as the pilots are individually bidding that option. There should be not a single penny or any accommodation for reduced compensation agreed to that affects the entire pilot group. Those concessions take decades to get back regardless of what SnapBack language is stuck in the wording. Frankly you have put yourself in a tough spot. Why did you make your income as a pilot the sole means a of supporting your family? That’s just really... optimistic and naive to be honest. I do have a mustache but I drink whiskey instead of the beer... concession do not prevent furloughs. Who are you to tell someone that they were optimistic and naive? Perhaps they made the best choice they could for their family. We don't know your situation and you don't know other's. This kind of statement doesn't do anything to collectively move forward. |
Originally Posted by EagleVol
(Post 3099363)
reducing line values aren’t a concession. If the line values are reduced 15% then people get 15% more time off. I’m pretty sure APA was trying to get that in contract negotiations before Covid anyway. People that want to fly more can pick up time, but not everyone wants to fly 90 hours a month.
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Originally Posted by R57 relay
(Post 3099370)
Who are you to tell someone that they were optimistic and naive? Perhaps they made the best choice they could for their family.
We don't know your situation and you don't know other's. This kind of statement doesn't do anything to collectively move forward. |
Originally Posted by R57 relay
(Post 3099370)
Who are you to tell someone that they were optimistic and naive? Perhaps they made the best choice they could for their family.
We don't know your situation and you don't know other's. This kind of statement doesn't do anything to collectively move forward. |
Originally Posted by rdneckpilot
(Post 3099376)
Who is FetaCheese to call out the old guys he can’t wait to get rid of. FetaCheese doesnt know their situation. I was pretty much calling him out so yeah. I agree with you. My point was it’s easy to sit around and point fingers and concessions do not prevent furloughs.
It’s easy to sit around and point fingers at guys with single incomes when you don’t know if their wife died of cancer and he spent his savings trying to save her and make her last days comfortable while raising 3 kids. Everyone’s situation is unique. You know nothing about Fetas situation beyond the little he has told yet you assume he is naive and irresponsible. Think about that next time you want to bash people from behind a keyboard and start throwing labels on people. And you owe the guy an apology. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by C5Drvr
(Post 3099397)
It’s easy to sit around and point fingers at guys with single incomes when you don’t know if their wife died of cancer and he spent his savings trying to save her and make her last days comfortable while raising 3 kids. Everyone’s situation is unique.
You know nothing about Fetas situation beyond the little he has told yet you assume he is naive and irresponsible. Think about that next time you want to bash people from behind a keyboard and start throwing labels on people. And you owe the guy an apology. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk For the second and I guess last time. I think feta was being unreasonable in his statements about other pilots so I gave a little back to him in an effort to point out how unproductive and pointless it is. So yeah. I agree with you. I’m not apologizing to him for anything I said. Anyone that will get on here and say the hateful things he said in the post I quoted doesn’t get an apology. I don’t think his wife is dead if she can get a job now as he referenced in his post. But that’s not the point anyway. It’s just straw man BS. |
Originally Posted by FetaCheese
(Post 3099394)
Yeah, exactly. He doesn't even deserve a response.
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