Originally Posted by EasternShore

I agree with Dobbs, at this point 2500 is just the start unfortunately. Which still doesn’t make APA’s agreements palatable. They bought the timeshare on the first sales pitch. Absolute morons

APA states that alv reductions were a part of a bigger ask during section 6 and that they weren’t discussed as a means of mitigation... what happened to flexibility? What happened to small ball? I’ll take a walk, a couple singles and a stolen base. We don’t need to swing for the fences every at bat.

Originally Posted by Dobbs18

I agree that the original furlough line was said to be 1200-1600, however things have taken a bad turn for the worse since those July 2021 numbers were posted along with the Sept Vacancy. If we don't see any Cares 2.0 money I have a bad feeling that 2500 is going to be just the start. As far as mitigating furloughs, they company was not going to agree to anything that cost them more money. That being said these ZTLs are actually a huge savings to the company over the traditional furlough process....Great for them, TBD for us. The onus is on us (next generation) to break the cycle of 'sacrificing our young' just because it is part of some twisted sadistic right of passage in the airline industry. I am not advocating some socialistic pilot union where seniority doesn't matter, but rather an idea or thought that maybe we start negotiating from the middle of the list instead of from the top down....what I mean is, only about 16% or less of our seniority list is GP IV captains, and usually for only a short time, yet most of efforts at times seems geared towards the idea of everyone being a GP IV captain....

Originally Posted by Dobbs18

I agree that the original furlough line was said to be 1200-1600, however things have taken a bad turn for the worse since those July 2021 numbers were posted along with the Sept Vacancy. If we don't see any Cares 2.0 money I have a bad feeling that 2500 is going to be just the start. As far as mitigating furloughs, they company was not going to agree to anything that cost them more money. That being said these ZTLs are actually a huge savings to the company over the traditional furlough process....Great for them, TBD for us. The onus is on us (next generation) to break the cycle of 'sacrificing our young' just because it is part of some twisted sadistic right of passage in the airline industry. I am not advocating some socialistic pilot union where seniority doesn't matter, but rather an idea or thought that maybe we start negotiating from the middle of the list instead of from the top down....what I mean is, only about 16% or less of our seniority list is GP IV captains, and usually for only a short time, yet most of efforts at times seems geared towards the idea of everyone being a GP IV captain....

Originally Posted by ACEssXfer

The company would be flat out foolish to say the “line” is anything less than the full 2500 after the agreement we just gave them.

Originally Posted by ACEssXfer

The company would be flat out foolish to say the “line” is anything less than the full 2500 after the agreement we just gave them.

Originally Posted by Battlinbear

exactly right. But, they also might look at it as another way to fracture the union more than it already is. Section 6 lolol.but first thing we need to change will be pay increases to DOH. 4 dates for someone?! LTD can remain status Q.

Originally Posted by bababouey

This is correct. 2500 minus whatever zero time lines and alt months were awarded. 6 month recall and instant cost savings, it’s a no brainer. I bet the final number is around 1800, with recalls beginning Q1 2022. Just a guess based on current landscape, I hope I’m wrong.


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Originally Posted by Saabs

What hire date did this DOH discrepancy start for third listers?


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Originally Posted by Thedude

The last Third Lister was hired in 12/13. They do not have that issue.