Plan for the 11 787p's?
07-09-2025 | 02:51 PM
#101
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Joined: Dec 2011
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From: A320 FO
I hope you're right. The 777X would be sweet. From what I've seen of Isom I would expect him just to order a few more 787s and more XLRs. Shrink the total Group IV airframes and increase the 321XLR fleet to pick up the slack. Then they could offload whatever they can't fly to JV partners. We don't have eny scope requiring growth flying to be done by AA.
That orphans the small 777-300ER fleet so they wind that down and park them. Hopefully something less disappointing than this happens. I want to be positive on the future of the company and I want to retire a widebody captain. But they need to demonstrate that they care about serious growth in that space and they absolutely have not at this point.
07-09-2025 | 04:48 PM
#102
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Joined: Aug 2014
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This is the doomsday scenario but it feels right without a major management philosophy shift (which scapegoating Vasu didn't accomplish). They will order 787-10s to replace 777-200s because they are equivalent to beancounters in the same way XLRs are to 757s. They insist cargo doesn't make money.
That orphans the small 777-300ER fleet so they wind that down and park them. Hopefully something less disappointing than this happens. I want to be positive on the future of the company and I want to retire a widebody captain. But they need to demonstrate that they care about serious growth in that space and they absolutely have not at this point.
That orphans the small 777-300ER fleet so they wind that down and park them. Hopefully something less disappointing than this happens. I want to be positive on the future of the company and I want to retire a widebody captain. But they need to demonstrate that they care about serious growth in that space and they absolutely have not at this point.
07-09-2025 | 05:57 PM
#103
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Joined: Dec 2011
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From: A320 FO
0. I'll retire in the high 4000s so we need about 30-40 more WBs than current book (or a CBA change that requires more captains instead of relief FOs) so junior CA goes into the 5000s. So I'm very interested in growing the WB fleet.
07-10-2025 | 06:13 AM
#104
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Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 157
Likes: 67
In what world was Vasu a scapegoat? He's taking the lion's share of the blame, but the man was the CCO, it wasn't like they canned a low-level manager.
Sure, he wasn't the only one making bad calls but moving past his "sun belt strategy" and "our product is our network" has been a welcome relief. The sales strategy that hamstrung us was his brainchild. He wanted to be a disruptor to an industry that is stodgy and established (corporate travel) and failed.
People engage in the same revisionist history with Kirby. Sure, he's trying to be Juan Trippe 2.0 at United, but when he was at AW/US/AA, he was all about RJ's, shrinking mainline, and keeping our pay low.
Sure, he wasn't the only one making bad calls but moving past his "sun belt strategy" and "our product is our network" has been a welcome relief. The sales strategy that hamstrung us was his brainchild. He wanted to be a disruptor to an industry that is stodgy and established (corporate travel) and failed.
People engage in the same revisionist history with Kirby. Sure, he's trying to be Juan Trippe 2.0 at United, but when he was at AW/US/AA, he was all about RJ's, shrinking mainline, and keeping our pay low.
07-10-2025 | 06:15 AM
#105
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Joined: Jan 2018
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In what world was Vasu a scapegoat? He's taking the lion's share of the blame, but the man was the CCO, it wasn't like they canned a low-level manager.
Sure, he wasn't the only one making bad calls but moving past his "sun belt strategy" and "our product is our network" has been a welcome relief. The sales strategy that hamstrung us was his brainchild. He wanted to be a disruptor to an industry that is stodgy and established (corporate travel) and failed.
People engage in the same revisionist history with Kirby. Sure, he's trying to be Juan Trippe 2.0 at United, but when he was at AW/US/AA, he was all about RJ's, shrinking mainline, and keeping our pay low.
Sure, he wasn't the only one making bad calls but moving past his "sun belt strategy" and "our product is our network" has been a welcome relief. The sales strategy that hamstrung us was his brainchild. He wanted to be a disruptor to an industry that is stodgy and established (corporate travel) and failed.
People engage in the same revisionist history with Kirby. Sure, he's trying to be Juan Trippe 2.0 at United, but when he was at AW/US/AA, he was all about RJ's, shrinking mainline, and keeping our pay low.
07-10-2025 | 06:37 AM
#106
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 341
In what world was Vasu a scapegoat? He's taking the lion's share of the blame, but the man was the CCO, it wasn't like they canned a low-level manager.
Sure, he wasn't the only one making bad calls but moving past his "sun belt strategy" and "our product is our network" has been a welcome relief. The sales strategy that hamstrung us was his brainchild. He wanted to be a disruptor to an industry that is stodgy and established (corporate travel) and failed.
People engage in the same revisionist history with Kirby. Sure, he's trying to be Juan Trippe 2.0 at United, but when he was at AW/US/AA, he was all about RJ's, shrinking mainline, and keeping our pay low.
Sure, he wasn't the only one making bad calls but moving past his "sun belt strategy" and "our product is our network" has been a welcome relief. The sales strategy that hamstrung us was his brainchild. He wanted to be a disruptor to an industry that is stodgy and established (corporate travel) and failed.
People engage in the same revisionist history with Kirby. Sure, he's trying to be Juan Trippe 2.0 at United, but when he was at AW/US/AA, he was all about RJ's, shrinking mainline, and keeping our pay low.
He was really only wrong about one thing - getting rid of the booking systems corporate agents use. And he wasn't even wrong - it needs and will be done - he was just early. Which is the same as being wrong most cases. We pushed $2b in revenue to DL and UA as the post-covid upswing was happening.
I agree about Kirby - he was pushing for 99 seat RJs his entire tenure here. UA had a severely underutilized route network that Smisek had floundered, Kirby just used his AA rolodex game plan, took what he learned here and applied it there. He's a smart guy but still a dick.
07-10-2025 | 06:39 AM
#107
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American Airlines Names Vasu Raja Vice President, International Revenue Management
07-10-2025 | 06:44 AM
#108
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Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 157
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They get the luxury of changing their tune, but they were all drunk on the Vasu kool-aid too. I'd rather fix our problems organically than have an outside influence (like what's happening at SWA) come in and upset the apple cart. Devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
07-10-2025 | 07:25 AM
#109
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Joined: Mar 2025
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In what world was Vasu a scapegoat? He's taking the lion's share of the blame, but the man was the CCO, it wasn't like they canned a low-level manager.
Sure, he wasn't the only one making bad calls but moving past his "sun belt strategy" and "our product is our network" has been a welcome relief. The sales strategy that hamstrung us was his brainchild. He wanted to be a disruptor to an industry that is stodgy and established (corporate travel) and failed.
People engage in the same revisionist history with Kirby. Sure, he's trying to be Juan Trippe 2.0 at United, but when he was at AW/US/AA, he was all about RJ's, shrinking mainline, and keeping our pay low.
Sure, he wasn't the only one making bad calls but moving past his "sun belt strategy" and "our product is our network" has been a welcome relief. The sales strategy that hamstrung us was his brainchild. He wanted to be a disruptor to an industry that is stodgy and established (corporate travel) and failed.
People engage in the same revisionist history with Kirby. Sure, he's trying to be Juan Trippe 2.0 at United, but when he was at AW/US/AA, he was all about RJ's, shrinking mainline, and keeping our pay low.
Vasu also brought on our expansion into eastern European markets as well. He made a huge push for adding destinations out of hubs and successfully beat Spirit down in DFW as well.
He was really only wrong about one thing - getting rid of the booking systems corporate agents use. And he wasn't even wrong - it needs and will be done - he was just early. Which is the same as being wrong most cases. We pushed $2b in revenue to DL and UA as the post-covid upswing was happening.
I agree about Kirby - he was pushing for 99 seat RJs his entire tenure here. UA had a severely underutilized route network that Smisek had floundered, Kirby just used his AA rolodex game plan, took what he learned here and applied it there. He's a smart guy but still a dick.
He was really only wrong about one thing - getting rid of the booking systems corporate agents use. And he wasn't even wrong - it needs and will be done - he was just early. Which is the same as being wrong most cases. We pushed $2b in revenue to DL and UA as the post-covid upswing was happening.
I agree about Kirby - he was pushing for 99 seat RJs his entire tenure here. UA had a severely underutilized route network that Smisek had floundered, Kirby just used his AA rolodex game plan, took what he learned here and applied it there. He's a smart guy but still a dick.
Yes he messed up the corporate travel issue but the plan was actually pretty solid and sound the problem was the execution. But as Name User said he was the big reason we pushed so hard into Europe pre covid. He was willing to try new things and if covid had not happened who knows where we would be. Had covid not happened the plan was to serve something like 7 or 8 cities out of seattle alone not to mention his expansion into Morocco and India.
07-10-2025 | 08:31 AM
#110
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Joined: Jan 2018
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I get that, but the Board and CEO aren't going to fire themselves if they were all complicit. The only way they can get removed is with a shareholder vote or activist takeover.
They get the luxury of changing their tune, but they were all drunk on the Vasu kool-aid too. I'd rather fix our problems organically than have an outside influence (like what's happening at SWA) come in and upset the apple cart. Devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
They get the luxury of changing their tune, but they were all drunk on the Vasu kool-aid too. I'd rather fix our problems organically than have an outside influence (like what's happening at SWA) come in and upset the apple cart. Devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
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