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Old 11-23-2014 | 04:16 AM
  #911  
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Originally Posted by Route66
I didn't "cave" on scope. As I said before and I'll say it again, that ship has ALREADY sailed regarding scope.
As long as there is mainline flying left that is demonstrably INCORRECT no matter how many time you say it.
Originally Posted by Route66
I also said that the 5 seat increase on EXISTING aircraft will DO NOTHING but increase the amount of revenue feed mainline gets....
And like the company you would be wrong. It also makes regional flying significantly more profitable relative to mainline and therefore the urge to outsource it greater. It also puts another bulge in the line we all need to try and hold industry wide.

Originally Posted by Route66
The "banks" have nothing to do with it. The American BOD with Parker and Kirby leading the effort are the ones (and ultimately the shareholders) have to contend with. They WANT Delta, it's just they have a different way of going about it.
Sorry, but the corporate BODs are along for the ride and shareholders have almost ZERO control. Banks are the only real overseers management still has to answer to except in the most perilous situations.
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Old 11-23-2014 | 04:46 AM
  #912  
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Originally Posted by Flytolive
As long as there is mainline flying left that is demonstrably INCORRECT no matter how many time you say it
I disagree.

And like the company you would be wrong. It also makes regional flying significantly more profitable relative to mainline and therefore the urge to outsource it greater. It also puts another bulge in the line we all need to try and hold industry wide.
I disagree.

Sorry, but the corporate BODs are along for the ride and shareholders have almost ZERO control. Banks are the only real overseers management still has to answer to except in the most perilous situations.
I disagree. You may want to go back to business 101 and review your "cliff notes".
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Old 11-23-2014 | 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Flytolive
Sorry, but the corporate BODs are along for the ride and shareholders have almost ZERO control. Banks are the only real overseers management still has to answer to except in the most perilous situations.
Originally Posted by Route66
I disagree. You may want to go back to business 101 and review your "cliff notes".
You might want to realize that the text book version of how a corporate BOD is supposed to work and how it actually does are two completely different things. I recommend John Bogle's book, Battle for the Soul of Capitalism, as a start. In it he explains how mutual funds control over 60% of shares of public companies and how they completely fail in their fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. Who do you think submits the slate of directors at the annual shareholder meeting that is rubber stamped by the institutional investors? Management does. So in essence the CEOs hire their own BOD. Why do you think almost all public corporations incorporate in Delaware?

Such naivety would be charming if it wasn't so dangerous to our futures. Thankfully, the leaders of the APA and their counsel are under no such delusions.
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Old 11-23-2014 | 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Flytolive
You might want to realize that the text book version of how a corporate BOD is supposed to work and how it actually does are two completely different things. I recommend John Bogle's book, Battle for the Soul of Capitalism, as a start. In it he explains how mutual funds control over 60% of shares of public companies and how they completely fail in their fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. Who do you think submits the slate of directors at the annual shareholder meeting that is rubber stamped by the institutional investors? Management does. So in essence the CEOs hire their own BOD. Why do you think almost all public corporations incorporate in Delaware?

Such naivety would be charming if it wasn't so dangerous to our futures. Thankfully, the leaders of the APA and their counsel are under no such delusions.
Really? So WHERE do you think that MONEY that the company puts in your 401K (eg. fidelity) for you to invest yourself? You put it in mutual funds or shares of stock of PUBLIC companies so you can MAXIMIZE your retirement gain? It's so hypocritical of employees who complain about the soul of capitalism for others yet they want THEIR nest egg to be the biggest?

I know why they incorporate in Delaware.

Where do YOU put your money in your 401-K?

BTW naive is what you are describing for you in your post.
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Old 11-23-2014 | 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Flytolive
You might want to realize that the text book version of how a corporate BOD is supposed to work and how it actually does are two completely different things. I recommend John Bogle's book, Battle for the Soul of Capitalism, as a start. In it he explains how mutual funds control over 60% of shares of public companies and how they completely fail in their fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. Who do you think submits the slate of directors at the annual shareholder meeting that is rubber stamped by the institutional investors? Management does. So in essence the CEOs hire their own BOD. Why do you think almost all public corporations incorporate in Delaware?

Such naivety would be charming if it wasn't so dangerous to our futures. Thankfully, the leaders of the APA and their counsel are under no such delusions.
If you want to get to the root of the issue it really is about the tax system in the US that takes our money from us in the form of retirement contributions that go into the capitalist system you talk of and funds it without the option for you to put it in your shoebox or invest it the way YOU want to.
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Old 11-23-2014 | 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Route66
Really? So WHERE do you think that MONEY that the company puts in your 401K (eg. fidelity) for you to invest yourself? You put it in mutual funds or shares of stock of PUBLIC companies so you can MAXIMIZE your retirement gain? It's so hypocritical of employees who complain about the soul of capitalism for others yet they want THEIR nest egg to be the biggest?

I know why they incorporate in Delaware.

Where do YOU put your money in your 401-K?

BTW naive is what you are describing for you in your post.
Are you even capable of responding to people without pressing the CAPS button? Thank god you don't negotiate for us.
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Old 11-23-2014 | 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Saabs
Are you even capable of responding to people without pressing the CAPS button? Thank god you don't negotiate for us.
Its called highly the terms of your speech for the point.

Strict unionist typically don't get that.
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Old 11-23-2014 | 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Route66
This analysis and reasoning covers EVERYTHING I've been trying to say since I got on this board.
...and apparently the source of your frustration is that for the most part, it's been rejected by the majority here, just as this reps blast has been elsewhere. I hope you're not doubling-down on minority disregard by being an active tea-bagger too.
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Old 11-23-2014 | 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Route66
Really? So WHERE do you think that MONEY that the company puts in your 401K (eg. fidelity) for you to invest yourself? You put it in mutual funds or shares of stock of PUBLIC companies so you can MAXIMIZE your retirement gain? It's so hypocritical of employees who complain about the soul of capitalism for others yet they want THEIR nest egg to be the biggest?
Your ASSumptions aren't even close to the mark. I think capitalism with proper regulation is by far the best economic system for creating wealth and relieving poverty, but as Bogle points out that is not what we have with the vast majority of publicly traded corporations. He calls it managementism. Go look at a chart of what has happened to executive pay over the previous century and particularly since 1980 and tell me corporate governance is not broken. I have discussed this with mutual fund managers who readily agree that the corporate governance model is completely dysfunctional. They would find your text book references and lack of critical thinking entertaining. At least now we know why some of your views are so in synch with management.
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Old 11-23-2014 | 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Route66
Oh, here is another "tidbit" of information. Todd was hired in 1999 with a planned retirement date of 2031 so I guess he is supporting it to bump his retirement income up as well.
...or perhaps it's to pay for a $400/K plus house he bought on F/O pay ? He was an avid supporter of the same capitulation in the past (consistency) and he's among the most inexperienced members of the BOD.

Is he Jesus ?

Hardly.
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