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Old 08-09-2016, 09:36 AM
  #14521  
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Originally Posted by SebastianDesoto View Post
Don't think I have ever seen a jepp wx symbol chart.


http://ww1.jeppesen.com/aviation/per...ather-help.jsp

Sorry, not a chart aka map but a bunch papers that i got back in basic indoc for my current company. It just went over the symbology.


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Old 08-09-2016, 12:00 PM
  #14522  
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Originally Posted by SebastianDesoto View Post
Don't think I have ever seen a jepp wx symbol chart.
The link has an assortment of charts and symbol definitions. Also the question bank on page 1099 was still pretty good a year ago and Gliem ATP prep is good source. Hope it helps....Good Luck

https://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...f&action=close
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:02 PM
  #14523  
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Default FO PIC PCs now at Atlas...

Here's the official word from the ExCo. This means that you'll have a PIC checkride at the end of your probationary period at Atlas. Most of the FOs who've taken it so far have busted which will stall your progress to leave for greener pastures...

*** Atlas Executive Council Flight Action Alert (FAA) ***
Atlas Crew Members,
This action alert is to advise you of a recent turn of events regarding B-747 training. The FAA has recently instituted enhanced training requirements for flight crews and in particular with respect to First Officer PC Check Rides. Apparently, this relates to the companyís unwillingness to negotiate an appropriate AQP program, as a vast number of carriers in the industry have already done in order to enhance their training programs.
It appears that from this point forward, first officers on the B-747 will be required to complete a PIC check ride on their PC. You should all be ready to take this type of check ride, in addition to an extended and enhanced oral examination. The company, with the FAA observing, has run a few tests of this new requirement and the results have not gone well. You can expect the FAA to sit in on your check rides on a more frequent basis going forward, especially during the initial stages of this transition to the agencyís enhanced requirements.
The recent increase in failures underscores the fact that our crews, and in particular our first officers, are being required to take check rides for which they are not adequately prepared.
It is the unionís position that these problems are, in part, attributable to the poor quality of our simulators, inadequate training provided to the FOs for this requirement, a lack of familiarity and experience of flying from the left seat, and a rapid change in the training program and the requirements needed from our pilots.
The union considers this a serious problem that can have serious adverse consequences on a pilotís career. Indeed, as a pilot progresses in his or her career, their path to advancement might be curtailed by a training failure on their record that should never have happened if he or she had received adequate training and support in the first place. As a result, we have taken immediate action to rectify this issue.
A letter was sent yesterday to Captain Jeff Carlson, SVP Flight Operations, requesting the following training measures be instituted immediately (Click here to read the letter):
1) An additional simulator session to bring the FOs up to a level of proficiency to fly this check ride (PC & RFT). Also, this extra simulator session should be comprised of the same crew that will be working together on that particular PC or RFT.
2) An independent company, approved by the union, be brought in to evaluate and issue a report that will detail what is needed to bring the current simulators at Atlas and Pan Am up to industry and FAA standards.
3) An in-depth oral prep ground school instruction period to bring our pilots up to speed on items to be covered on the newly expanded oral exam.
The union will work quickly and proactively to get this problem corrected and under control. If you have any concerns that you may not be properly prepared for a training event, we encourage you to get in touch with the unionís Training Committee for assistance.
We will update you further as this situation evolves.
Fraternally,
Atlas ExCo
Atlas Training Committee
APA Teamsters Local 1224
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:34 PM
  #14524  
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Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 View Post
Here's the official word from the ExCo. This means that you'll have a PIC checkride at the end of your probationary period at Atlas. Most of the FOs who've taken it so far have busted which will stall your progress to leave for greener pastures...

*** Atlas Executive Council Flight Action Alert (FAA) ***
Atlas Crew Members,
This action alert is to advise you of a recent turn of events regarding B-747 training. The FAA has recently instituted enhanced training requirements for flight crews and in particular with respect to First Officer PC Check Rides. Apparently, this relates to the companyís unwillingness to negotiate an appropriate AQP program, as a vast number of carriers in the industry have already done in order to enhance their training programs.
It appears that from this point forward, first officers on the B-747 will be required to complete a PIC check ride on their PC. You should all be ready to take this type of check ride, in addition to an extended and enhanced oral examination. The company, with the FAA observing, has run a few tests of this new requirement and the results have not gone well. You can expect the FAA to sit in on your check rides on a more frequent basis going forward, especially during the initial stages of this transition to the agencyís enhanced requirements.
The recent increase in failures underscores the fact that our crews, and in particular our first officers, are being required to take check rides for which they are not adequately prepared.
It is the unionís position that these problems are, in part, attributable to the poor quality of our simulators, inadequate training provided to the FOs for this requirement, a lack of familiarity and experience of flying from the left seat, and a rapid change in the training program and the requirements needed from our pilots.
The union considers this a serious problem that can have serious adverse consequences on a pilotís career. Indeed, as a pilot progresses in his or her career, their path to advancement might be curtailed by a training failure on their record that should never have happened if he or she had received adequate training and support in the first place. As a result, we have taken immediate action to rectify this issue.
A letter was sent yesterday to Captain Jeff Carlson, SVP Flight Operations, requesting the following training measures be instituted immediately (Click here to read the letter):
1) An additional simulator session to bring the FOs up to a level of proficiency to fly this check ride (PC & RFT). Also, this extra simulator session should be comprised of the same crew that will be working together on that particular PC or RFT.
2) An independent company, approved by the union, be brought in to evaluate and issue a report that will detail what is needed to bring the current simulators at Atlas and Pan Am up to industry and FAA standards.
3) An in-depth oral prep ground school instruction period to bring our pilots up to speed on items to be covered on the newly expanded oral exam.
The union will work quickly and proactively to get this problem corrected and under control. If you have any concerns that you may not be properly prepared for a training event, we encourage you to get in touch with the unionís Training Committee for assistance.
We will update you further as this situation evolves.
Fraternally,
Atlas ExCo
Atlas Training Committee
APA Teamsters Local 1224



This is not altogether true.

Globemaster, do you fly here at Atlas? If you do, why would you post this knowing that we received an email from training and standards after the EXCO sent this clarifying this?

In any event, while it is true that FO PC's are being scrutinized, there is currently NO change to the way we conduct training on the 747 for FO's. The FSDO observed 2 events only and the PIC portion of the events were only 2 additional items both done from the right seat. This is being done in response to an LOI from the FAA to Atlas.

At the end of the day, who really cares??!! Before we see any change, those changes have to be approved by the FAA and Atlas will be required to provide us the training to be able to accomplish the new footprint. NO doubt that this will probably be what we will be required to do going forward but it is NOT the way we are doing it NOW.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:53 PM
  #14525  
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Originally Posted by Davetastic View Post
This is not altogether true.

Globemaster, do you fly here at Atlas? If you do, why would you post this knowing that we received an email from training and standards after the EXCO sent this clarifying this?

In any event, while it is true that FO PC's are being scrutinized, there is currently NO change to the way we conduct training on the 747 for FO's. The FSDO observed 2 events only and the PIC portion of the events were only 2 additional items both done from the right seat. This is being done in response to an LOI from the FAA to Atlas.

At the end of the day, who really cares??!! Before we see any change, those changes have to be approved by the FAA and Atlas will be required to provide us the training to be able to accomplish the new footprint. NO doubt that this will probably be what we will be required to do going forward but it is NOT the way we are doing it NOW.
Sorry... I trust our ExCo over the company. Right now you will be taking a PIC check ride at the end of your probationary period and getting FO pay that's well south of industry standard. That's important information for those applying as any hiccups will stall your progression towards a Legacy.
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:36 PM
  #14526  
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Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 View Post
Sorry... I trust our ExCo over the company. Right now you will be taking a PIC check ride at the end of your probationary period and getting FO pay that's well south of industry standard. That's important information for those applying as any hiccups will stall your progression towards a Legacy.

Now you are just making ****** up! Where in that EXCO letter does it say anything about a "type ride" at the probationary exit PC?

Yes we have substandard pay and anyone in aviation knows that a training failure will result in stalled career progression but let's stick to the point. FO PC's will not change until the FAA approves a plan that addresses the concerns raised by the FSDO in a LOI to Atlas. These two observed events were nothing more than the culmination of 9 months worth of conversations between the Feds, the company AND our union.

Going forward, FO PIC PC's will have just two additional tasks to be performed both from the RIGHT SEAT. PC pass rates for 2016 are above 98%. Read the freakin' email.
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:04 PM
  #14527  
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Those pass rates are for the whole year, not just the new and improved way. The company email even referenced people failing the new PC multiple times! His other point on PCs is that new FOs will take the type ride, not get OE, and have to do ANOTHER sim ride to get current 3 months later. Lots are failing that. My exco speaks for me.
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Old 08-09-2016, 03:39 PM
  #14528  
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Originally Posted by CandlerKid View Post
Those pass rates are for the whole year, not just the new and improved way. The company email even referenced people failing the new PC multiple times! His other point on PCs is that new FOs will take the type ride, not get OE, and have to do ANOTHER sim ride to get current 3 months later. Lots are failing that. My exco speaks for me.

The 98% pass rate (almost 99%) is for recurrent PC's!!! for this year. PC's that we are doing now. There is no new and improved way to do PC's. It said,
  • "We are not currently administering these PCs other than in 2 instances which the FAA requested to observe prior to moving forward".



And,
  • "These (and all) FO PCs will be done from the right seat. The only difference between a FO PIC PC and a FO PC on the 747 is two additional maneuvers."



And, NO where in the company email did it say that "people are failing the new PC multiple times", as you quoted. It said, "
  • "The one failure was unrelated to these two additional maneuvers. The maneuver in question was retrained and then rechecked with an unsuccessful outcome. The PC was successful the following day".


Are we reading the same letter???!!!! There is ZERO reference in the latest company letter about a new FO taking the type ride. WE ALL TOOK A PIC TYPE RIDE and it was from the left seat when we were hired except if you were already typed and then it was just a PC.



There is nothing new here guys. This is exactly the same as it's always been.



I have no idea what you are talking about here: "new FOs will take the type ride, not get OE, and have to do ANOTHER sim ride to get current 3 months later. Lots are failing that"


If you are talking about a backlog of guys getting out to OE but going out of currency and having to take a PC to gain currency you are correct. It is an FAR......but how are you substantiating "lots of guys are failing that?" Again, NOWHERE referenced in the latest company email.


So Mr CandlerKid sir, if your definition of "people failing" means that one guy, during one time of only two observed events, doing it the "new way", doing only two additional maneuvers from the right seat, then I stand corrected.








I too stand by my union and I volunteer time for this pilot group as well in the furtherance of a better contract. However, this company already has a lot of bad press and negative elements in our contract as it relates to our QOL and compensation but let's not make it worse by dispelling misinformation.



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Old 08-09-2016, 03:57 PM
  #14529  
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Originally Posted by Davetastic View Post
Now you are just making ****** up! Where in that EXCO letter does it say anything about a "type ride" at the probationary exit PC?

Yes we have substandard pay and anyone in aviation knows that a training failure will result in stalled career progression but let's stick to the point. FO PC's will not change until the FAA approves a plan that addresses the concerns raised by the FSDO in a LOI to Atlas. These two observed events were nothing more than the culmination of 9 months worth of conversations between the Feds, the company AND our union.

Going forward, FO PIC PC's will have just two additional tasks to be performed both from the RIGHT SEAT. PC pass rates for 2016 are above 98%. Read the freakin' email.
Yeah, well an FO got a pink slip over it. So now if he's wanting out - as any FO under 50 probably should - he's going to have to explain it and it'll probably affect whether he gets an email at all. I trust our ExCo so the email I got from Management is irrelevant to me. If management wants any of us to trust them they can start by setting up negotiations.
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Old 08-09-2016, 03:57 PM
  #14530  
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Holy cow you've lost it. Nice selective copy and pasting. Btw the company has disciplined people for posting company emails on here, so best to avoid that. The company would get better press if they acted in a way that deserved it. Funny how that works.
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