Sorry... I trust our ExCo over the company. Right now you will be taking a PIC check ride at the end of your probationary period and getting FO pay that's well south of industry standard. That's important information for those applying as any hiccups will stall your progression towards a Legacy.

 

Now you are just making ****** up! Where in that EXCO letter does it say anything about a "type ride" at the probationary exit PC?

Yes we have substandard pay and anyone in aviation knows that a training failure will result in stalled career progression but let's stick to the point. FO PC's will not change until the FAA approves a plan that addresses the concerns raised by the FSDO in a LOI to Atlas. These two observed events were nothing more than the culmination of 9 months worth of conversations between the Feds, the company AND our union.

Going forward, FO PIC PC's will have just two additional tasks to be performed both from the RIGHT SEAT. PC pass rates for 2016 are above 98%. Read the freakin' email.

 

Those pass rates are for the whole year, not just the new and improved way. The company email even referenced people failing the new PC multiple times! His other point on PCs is that new FOs will take the type ride, not get OE, and have to do ANOTHER sim ride to get current 3 months later. Lots are failing that. My exco speaks for me.

 

The 98% pass rate (almost 99%) is for recurrent PC's!!! for this year. PC's that we are doing now. There is no new and improved way to do PC's. It said,

• "We are not currently administering these PCs other than in 2 instances which the FAA requested to observe prior to moving forward".

And,

• "These (and all) FO PCs will be done from the right seat. The only difference between a FO PIC PC and a FO PC on the 747 is two additional maneuvers."

And, NO where in the company email did it say that "people are failing the new PC multiple times", as you quoted. It said, "

• "The one failure was unrelated to these two additional maneuvers. The maneuver in question was retrained and then rechecked with an unsuccessful outcome. The PC was successful the following day".

Are we reading the same letter???!!!! There is ZERO reference in the latest company letter about a new FO taking the type ride. WE ALL TOOK A PIC TYPE RIDE and it was from the left seat when we were hired except if you were already typed and then it was just a PC.



There is nothing new here guys. This is exactly the same as it's always been.



I have no idea what you are talking about here: "new FOs will take the type ride, not get OE, and have to do ANOTHER sim ride to get current 3 months later. Lots are failing that"


If you are talking about a backlog of guys getting out to OE but going out of currency and having to take a PC to gain currency you are correct. It is an FAR......but how are you substantiating "lots of guys are failing that?" Again, NOWHERE referenced in the latest company email.


So Mr CandlerKid sir, if your definition of "people failing" means that one guy, during one time of only two observed events, doing it the "new way", doing only two additional maneuvers from the right seat, then I stand corrected.








I too stand by my union and I volunteer time for this pilot group as well in the furtherance of a better contract. However, this company already has a lot of bad press and negative elements in our contract as it relates to our QOL and compensation but let's not make it worse by dispelling misinformation.

 

Yeah, well an FO got a pink slip over it. So now if he's wanting out - as any FO under 50 probably should - he's going to have to explain it and it'll probably affect whether he gets an email at all. I trust our ExCo so the email I got from Management is irrelevant to me. If management wants any of us to trust them they can start by setting up negotiations.

 

Holy cow you've lost it. Nice selective copy and pasting. Btw the company has disciplined people for posting company emails on here, so best to avoid that. The company would get better press if they acted in a way that deserved it. Funny how that works.

 

The 98% on annual PCs is under the old system with adequate training for what you do on your PC. The type ride pass rate is far less. Last year one class had over half bust their types. Look... You can reference management all you want but I'll take the ExCo's word for it until management earns my trust. Looking at our contract and the fact that there are no negotiations scheduled it's pretty clear where the trust should be with our management.

 

I quote facts not selectively but as a matter of trying to refute the absurdity of claims that have no basis in fact.

......you can lead a horse to water....



I am a union volunteer!!!!! I work FOR YOU. I take ownership of my shortcomings and I'll call the union out for lobbing hand grenades too. If I like what I hear I'll pass it on, take it or leave it, and I will vote for a better contract hands down. I am not making personal attacks on anyone so leave the insults behind please.

As far as posting a union blast mail in its entirety and calling me out for picking quotes that refute weak positions with no factual data is hypocrisy.

 

You and are are saying the same thing here. We are in agreement.

 

..........