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Old 08-09-2016, 04:02 PM
  #14531  
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Originally Posted by Davetastic View Post
The 98% pass rate (almost 99%) is for recurrent PC's!!! for this year. PC's that we are doing now. There is no new and improved way to do PC's. It said,
  • "We are not currently administering these PCs other than in 2 instances which the FAA requested to observe prior to moving forward".



And,
  • "These (and all) FO PCs will be done from the right seat. The only difference between a FO PIC PC and a FO PC on the 747 is two additional maneuvers."



And, NO where in the company email did it say that "people are failing the new PC multiple times", as you quoted. It said, "
  • "The one failure was unrelated to these two additional maneuvers. The maneuver in question was retrained and then rechecked with an unsuccessful outcome. The PC was successful the following day".


Are we reading the same letter???!!!! There is ZERO reference in the latest company letter about a new FO taking the type ride. WE ALL TOOK A PIC TYPE RIDE and it was from the left seat when we were hired except if you were already typed and then it was just a PC.



There is nothing new here guys. This is exactly the same as it's always been.



I have no idea what you are talking about here: "new FOs will take the type ride, not get OE, and have to do ANOTHER sim ride to get current 3 months later. Lots are failing that"


If you are talking about a backlog of guys getting out to OE but going out of currency and having to take a PC to gain currency you are correct. It is an FAR......but how are you substantiating "lots of guys are failing that?" Again, NOWHERE referenced in the latest company email.


So Mr CandlerKid sir, if your definition of "people failing" means that one guy, during one time of only two observed events, doing it the "new way", doing only two additional maneuvers from the right seat, then I stand corrected.








I too stand by my union and I volunteer time for this pilot group as well in the furtherance of a better contract. However, this company already has a lot of bad press and negative elements in our contract as it relates to our QOL and compensation but let's not make it worse by dispelling misinformation.



The 98% on annual PCs is under the old system with adequate training for what you do on your PC. The type ride pass rate is far less. Last year one class had over half bust their types. Look... You can reference management all you want but I'll take the ExCo's word for it until management earns my trust. Looking at our contract and the fact that there are no negotiations scheduled it's pretty clear where the trust should be with our management.
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Old 08-09-2016, 04:36 PM
  #14532  
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I quote facts not selectively but as a matter of trying to refute the absurdity of claims that have no basis in fact.

......you can lead a horse to water....



I am a union volunteer!!!!! I work FOR YOU. I take ownership of my shortcomings and I'll call the union out for lobbing hand grenades too. If I like what I hear I'll pass it on, take it or leave it, and I will vote for a better contract hands down. I am not making personal attacks on anyone so leave the insults behind please.

As far as posting a union blast mail in its entirety and calling me out for picking quotes that refute weak positions with no factual data is hypocrisy.
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Old 08-09-2016, 04:39 PM
  #14533  
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Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 View Post
The 98% on annual PCs is under the old system with adequate training for what you do on your PC. The type ride pass rate is far less. Last year one class had over half bust their types. Look... You can reference management all you want but I'll take the ExCo's word for it until management earns my trust. Looking at our contract and the fact that there are no negotiations scheduled it's pretty clear where the trust should be with our management.

You and are are saying the same thing here. We are in agreement.
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Old 08-09-2016, 04:40 PM
  #14534  
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Originally Posted by CandlerKid View Post
Holy cow you've lost it. Nice selective copy and pasting. Btw the company has disciplined people for posting company emails on here, so best to avoid that. The company would get better press if they acted in a way that deserved it. Funny how that works.
..........
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Old 08-09-2016, 05:04 PM
  #14535  
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Originally Posted by CandlerKid View Post
Those pass rates are for the whole year, not just the new and improved way. The company email even referenced people failing the new PC multiple times! His other point on PCs is that new FOs will take the type ride, not get OE, and have to do ANOTHER sim ride to get current 3 months later. Lots are failing that. My exco speaks for me.
Talk to the training and standards committee. Your assumptions are ALL incorrect. Your assuming they failed due to the "new events". Did it ever occur to you that they didn't fail those items but for other reasons. I don't need to air those out here but the busts were NOT for the new events. There's ALWAYS more to the story of which you have very little - if any. Do some research before getting on social media and making bold accusations and assumptions. Make a few phone calls or send an email. The committee will be happy to tell you the real story. Though that doesn't mean you should put in on social media, but instead happy in knowing you don't have to get your blood pressure up for no reason. Don't make more of an issue than necessary.

Further more the following is at the bottom of EVERY teamster email:

"ABOUT THIS COMMUNICATION

You are subscribed to this communication as a member of APA Teamsters Local 1224. This communication is for the benefit of the members of APA Teamsters Local 1224. The sharing of union communications with non-members is strictly prohibited in accordance with APA Teamsters Local 1224 Bylaws, Section 30: Obligation, unless permission has been granted by the Executive Board. If you are no longer a member of APA Teamsters Local 1224 and you would like to unsubscribe to this newsletter and other union communications"

Did you gloss over the PROHIBITED part of the email? You're doing far more damage posting and discussing this in this format with others than you're doing good. There is a union forum for this conversation and there are committees you can contact with your concerns.

Last edited by KYTBRD; 08-09-2016 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Added content
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Old 08-09-2016, 05:27 PM
  #14536  
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Originally Posted by KYTBRD View Post
Talk to the training and standards committee. Your assumptions are ALL incorrect. Your assuming they failed due to the "new events". Did it ever occur to you that they didn't fail those items but for other reasons. I don't need to air those out here but the busts were NOT for the new events. There's ALWAYS more to the story of which you have very little - if any. Do some research before getting on social media and making bold accusations and assumptions. Make a few phone calls or send an email. The committee will be happy to tell you the real story. Though that doesn't mean you should put in on social media, but instead happy in knowing you don't have to get your blood pressure up for no reason. Don't make more of an issue than necessary.

Further more the following is at the bottom of EVERY teamster email:

"ABOUT THIS COMMUNICATION


Did you gloss over the PROHIBITED part of the email? You're doing far more damage posting and discussing this in this format with others than you're doing good. There is a union forum for this conversation and there are committees you can contact with your concerns.
I didn't post anything from any Union email. I referenced the company email that the other posted. Wrong person...

Last edited by CandlerKid; 08-09-2016 at 05:45 PM. Reason: More info
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:58 PM
  #14537  
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Originally Posted by CandlerKid View Post
I didn't post anything from any Union email. I referenced the company email that the other posted. Wrong person...
Why would any of us post something from a Management email on here? 99.6% of us voted to strike - Every Sim instructor I know of voted yes. We have zero relationship with Management right now. I posted what our ExCo has told us and now we're seeing parts of Management emails on here. Do the readers of this thread want to hear from Management what it's like to work here or from the line grunts? You're not being hired into a Chief Pilot position making $500K with a free Condo on Key Biscayne. I'm sure Atlas's Management would love to tell you that this is an "Industry Leading" contract that our pilot group is under but that's a flat out lie and 99.6% of us know it.

I don't know if Dave took what I said the wrong way. Our Sim guys are flat out the best in the industry and they do the best with the horrible position that Atlas Management puts them in. Our Sim guys are awesome and many of them are friends. One of them who got me hired on is one of my VERY closest friends. They're all quick to buy beers and they're very reasonable where they can be. If the ExCo tells me that Atlas Management has put our entire training department AND our FOs in a bad situation then I believe my ExCo. I can promise you that there's a 99.6% chance that Atlas's line pilots AND our Sim instructors agree.

Sorry for the rant, but this is what it's like to work at Atlas and the ExCo email is EXTREMELY pertinent to what a New Hire can expect for the next 5 to 7 years while they're in the right seat.
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Old 08-10-2016, 01:02 AM
  #14538  
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It seems that management is intentionally trying to kill this airline. I have the sinking feeling that Bezos and the Amazon staff failed to perform due diligence.

Many of us have little choice, but to stick it out and hope the train does not come off the tracks. Think long and hard before coming here.
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Old 08-10-2016, 02:30 AM
  #14539  
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Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 View Post
Why would any of us post something from a Management email on here? 99.6% of us voted to strike - Every Sim instructor I know of voted yes. We have zero relationship with Management right now. I posted what our ExCo has told us and now we're seeing parts of Management emails on here. Do the readers of this thread want to hear from Management what it's like to work here or from the line grunts? You're not being hired into a Chief Pilot position making $500K with a free Condo on Key Biscayne. I'm sure Atlas's Management would love to tell you that this is an "Industry Leading" contract that our pilot group is under but that's a flat out lie and 99.6% of us know it.

I don't know if Dave took what I said the wrong way. Our Sim guys are flat out the best in the industry and they do the best with the horrible position that Atlas Management puts them in. Our Sim guys are awesome and many of them are friends. One of them who got me hired on is one of my VERY closest friends. They're all quick to buy beers and they're very reasonable where they can be. If the ExCo tells me that Atlas Management has put our entire training department AND our FOs in a bad situation then I believe my ExCo. I can promise you that there's a 99.6% chance that Atlas's line pilots AND our Sim instructors agree.

Sorry for the rant, but this is what it's like to work at Atlas and the ExCo email is EXTREMELY pertinent to what a New Hire can expect for the next 5 to 7 years while they're in the right seat.
Agreed. 100%. I'm not trying to offend by posting a fact from the company or otherwise. Nothing I posted is made up.

It just seems that there are those out there that are intent on reading into an email so it fits a particular argument. Here is what we can't deny:

We take PIC type rides from the left seat when hired.

Our recurrent FO PC'S are done from the right seat.

Going forward but still not implemented we will add two items to the FO PC done from the RIGHT seat.

So far no Brainer right?

The FAA observed only TWO events of the proposed prgram.

Everybody still with me?

Current pass/fail rates have NOTHING to do with the proposed changes to the FO PC.

You will take another PC (not with the proposed additional two items) if you go out of currency before OE.

I don't use phrases like "a guy told me" to substantiate these facts, I called the UNION.

Our contract is substandard.

Am I making friends yet?

No I haven't "lost it" nor am I making personal attacks . Now, are we all on the same page?

Any questions PM me. This topic has been substantially beaten to death.
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Old 08-10-2016, 02:40 AM
  #14540  
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Hopefully what I have posted helps those interested in coming here make an informed decision.
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