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Old 08-22-2014, 10:54 AM
  #9271  
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Originally Posted by JerrySpringer View Post
Unless one has a 3 or 4 digit part number, the individual is berated and talked down to (very similar to your writing style even) about every issue.

Perhaps you should pass word along that many of us have lots of 121 and union experience outside of Atlas. Perhaps our words, thoughts and ideas should not be summarily dismissed and trashed (similarly to your 'reply' to me. Other than continued display of the gross disconnect you seem to have with the majority of pilots in this company).
Originally Posted by C5nwhaleguy View Post
Springer i think we can all recognize whalefr8 is defending a sinking ship at this company as evident by his gross disconnect and a bygone dinosaur era insecurities at this once proud "club". Retirements cant come any sooner.
I think it just recently has become obvious to the old guard that they are about to lose control of the Union to a much more motivated and radical group that is going to bring outside of Atlas airline Unionism tactics here. Some just purely do not understand it, some are scared to fight and the rest have pulled up the ladder and do not give a sh!t.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:02 AM
  #9272  
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I'm sorry, but the NEW group is using the same old smear tactics of old style politics. Planting BS and watching it grow.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:23 PM
  #9273  
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The company need only read a handful of pages of this to realize they've got us almost exactly where they want us. Division and infighting is exactly what they want leading up to negotiations.

I'm pretty new here, but have some experience with negotiations and a pilot strike in my past. It's time now to elect our new leadership, get involved, and decide as a group what is important moving forward.

I believe constructive discussions about our path forward is healthy, and should be encouraged. But, we are going to get nowhere by rehashing the old vs new argument over and over again. Ultimately it is going to be a collective effort and believe me, you will want as much support from your fellow pilots, especially if and when the tide turns ugly down the road.

I'm not being condescending nor arrogant here, just merely saying we ought to try playing on the same ball field rather than separate ones if we want to see any real gains come next year. I think we can do it.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:29 PM
  #9274  
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Originally Posted by NAAPilot1 View Post
The company need only read a handful of pages of this to realize they've got us almost exactly where they want us. Division and infighting is exactly what they want leading up to negotiations.

I'm pretty new here, but have some experience with negotiations and a pilot strike in my past. It's time now to elect our new leadership, get involved, and decide as a group what is important moving forward.

I believe constructive discussions about our path forward is healthy, and should be encouraged. But, we are going to get nowhere by rehashing the old vs new argument over and over again. Ultimately it is going to be a collective effort and believe me, you will want as much support from your fellow pilots, especially if and when the tide turns ugly down the road.

I'm not being condescending nor arrogant here, just merely saying we ought to try playing on the same ball field rather than separate ones if we want to see any real gains come next year. I think we can do it.
Couldn't agree more, thank you.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:33 PM
  #9275  
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Can I just get a higher per diem to pay for the "morning muffin" grievance? We often leave hotels too early to get breakfast. Or we sleep through it because of a long day. Honestly I don't usually eat breakfast anyway - at home or on the road. I know, it's not supposed to be the most healthy thing to do, just don't tell my mom. I understand folks say its in the contract and I too think the company should abide by that. But what would be so wrong about just increasing the per diem rate $20 (approx price of Nagoya breakfast) so those who want a big badass buffet can have it and those who want to sleep through it can get lunch later?

For those without a sense of humor and fully aware they are too sensitive to attend a Daniel Tosh comedy act skip the next paragraph.

Besides, look at the heath benefits. When its free folks eat too much anyway in an effort to fill their "storage tanks" so they won't feel hungry until dinner or the flight later that night. Just like the free meals on the plane. Watching a few folks graze during flight you'd think the city you're heading to ran out of food weeks ago. If you have to use your own per diem to pay for it maybe you'll skip a few meals once and a while. We all know more than a few folks around here who make sure the hotel fully understands the American definition of ALL-you-can-eat buffet. At the very least you'll make more money for a meal you couldn't attend anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate a good breakfast when it's included AND I'm hungry. But with our crazy schedules I quite often miss them anyway.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:36 PM
  #9276  
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Originally Posted by Whaledriver View Post
I'm sorry, but the NEW group is using the same old smear tactics of old style politics. Planting BS and watching it grow.
Relax francis

Ive been a teamster in this union for ten years and to be honest its refreshing to see that people are interested in making it better. Its not about the new vs the old. I am not a senior Capt but many of the ones I fly with feel the exact same way. Its the ones who's pay will be effected or the ones that worked on the last contract., not saying who is right or wrong or they did a bad job but they are very defensive and seem to have the problem with some of the ideas of the new groups that are looking for a cahnge in leadership.

Its simple if you are happy with the current leadership then vote for yourself/ I mean them, they are running. If not then vote for another team. Just vote and then everyone can shut the front door
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:58 PM
  #9277  
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Originally Posted by C5nwhaleguy View Post
Springer i think we can all recognize whalefr8 is defending a sinking ship at this company as evident by his gross disconnect and a bygone dinosaur era insecurities at this once proud "club". Retirements cant come any sooner.
Wow, pretty harsh, C5...I am not sure I follow how this is a sinking ship. I do see the defeatist attitude (Stockholm Syndrome?!!) that some have, but to go that far is not based on reality. I am confident that even the weak-kneed "dinosaur" pilot that you regularly bash these days will make the right decision when the time comes.

While I understand the frustrations, I am not sure that banging that drum that I have been hearing lately is a wining strategy. And if it is, I have no problem with that, but please be careful in your rhetoric, since you seem to be painting with a pretty broad brush to the point of insulting and alienating the masses.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:32 PM
  #9278  
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Originally Posted by NAAPilot1 View Post
The company need only read a handful of pages of this to realize they've got us almost exactly where they want us. Division and infighting is exactly what they want leading up to negotiations.

I'm pretty new here, but have some experience with negotiations and a pilot strike in my past. It's time now to elect our new leadership, get involved, and decide as a group what is important moving forward.

I believe constructive discussions about our path forward is healthy, and should be encouraged. But, we are going to get nowhere by rehashing the old vs new argument over and over again. Ultimately it is going to be a collective effort and believe me, you will want as much support from your fellow pilots, especially if and when the tide turns ugly down the road.

I'm not being condescending nor arrogant here, just merely saying we ought to try playing on the same ball field rather than separate ones if we want to see any real gains come next year. I think we can do it.
Well said. It's easy to fall into the fallacy that because this particular internet board is a "pilot board" that it is secure. I would place a considerable wager that just about anything that is posted here is read by someone in Purchase within days of being posted. That doesn't mean we can't use this forum for valuable exchange but it does mean that every time we let emotion override logic and things get heated it makes people smile in New York. Perhaps one of two things may help. 1.) if something makes one of us really angry then apply a policy of waiting one day before posting (it has saved me from showing my posterior more than once in the past) or 2) send the vitriol directly by way of a private message. It doesn't matter how much we talk about being united if all the company needs to do is read these pages to see that it isn't so.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:12 PM
  #9279  
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Originally Posted by KYTBRD View Post
Can I just get a higher per diem to pay for the "morning muffin" grievance? We often leave hotels too early to get breakfast. Or we sleep through it because of a long day. Honestly I don't usually eat breakfast anyway - at home or on the road. I know, it's not supposed to be the most healthy thing to do, just don't tell my mom. I understand folks say its in the contract and I too think the company should abide by that. But what would be so wrong about just increasing the per diem rate $20 (approx price of Nagoya breakfast) so those who want a big badass buffet can have it and those who want to sleep through it can get lunch later?

For those without a sense of humor and fully aware they are too sensitive to attend a Daniel Tosh comedy act skip the next paragraph.

Besides, look at the heath benefits. When its free folks eat too much anyway in an effort to fill their "storage tanks" so they won't feel hungry until dinner or the flight later that night. Just like the free meals on the plane. Watching a few folks graze during flight you'd think the city you're heading to ran out of food weeks ago. If you have to use your own per diem to pay for it maybe you'll skip a few meals once and a while. We all know more than a few folks around here who make sure the hotel fully understands the American definition of ALL-you-can-eat buffet. At the very least you'll make more money for a meal you couldn't attend anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate a good breakfast when it's included AND I'm hungry. But with our crazy schedules I quite often miss them anyway.
For what it's worth I agree with you but the rumor I heard was that when that idea was floated by the company they responded with offering $1 a day extra. Just a line rumor and I have zero idea how true that is... My point is that you're not the only one who feels that way.
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:41 PM
  #9280  
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This is still the best thread for Atlas Hiring, right??? Seems to be drifting to negotiations. While it is useful to see some of the dynamics going on, is some of this better suited for the Union thread also on this board?

For those at Giant, good luck with your next contract. For those wanting to go to Giant...good luck with information gathering.
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