Whalefr8

Same question to you. What are we in negotiations for? What are we "giving up" in those negotiations? What is the union stance? Have they really given anything up? Did we lose money or hours? Did the time away from home increase? It takes two parties to negotiate.

The union leadership can blab all it wants but unless the company is blabbing back the negotiation is not taking place.

If there are LOAs that have done NOTHING for the group as a whole then why were they voted in? An LOA still gets a vote by the crewmembers right? It is the union leaders attempt to engage the crewmembers. A NO vote actually gives the leaders the power to go back to the company and ask for more. Your mention of an LOA that does nothing points the finger at the crewmembers, not the leadership or LOA negotiators.

Or perhaps you do not understand the process? As crewmembers we empower the leadership by voting no on an LOA or a CBA TA!

During every roadshow for our previous CBAs I asked the negotiators and MEC members "are you voting for this LOA?" Surprisingly their answer was often no. I voted likewise.

Part of negotiation is public support for what you have negotiated. It is a tactic to get more from the company 'Well Mr Cato - we will come out an support this LOA or TA this CBA if you give us a few more dollars an hour" all the while knowing (or hoping) that the crewmembers vote it down. It is a TACTIC, not a position. As crewmembers we need to be smarter than this. we need to understand the process and our role in the process. Your comment on the LOA shows that perhaps you do not understand that.

rv8builder

Gee, this bully message board tactic looks awfully familiar...

CandlerKid

If you're going to keep using somebodies name on an anonymous web board then sign your own at the bottom. That or go back to yelling at people on the union board.

NightIP

If you talk to the guys working in the training center (I'm not one), yes, the current leadership is pushing to lower their income by removing their ability to VX for open time. They are line pilots like the rest of us, and right now they're fuming mad that their 1.56% is going toward a grievance meant to restrict their pay.

Of course, that only applies to our pilots who work in Miami and receive the 72 hour min with the 10% override. What about our line check airmen, who also receive training overrides?

Exempt from the grievance.

Things that make you say "Hmmmm."

osupilot

Hi Whale-

I am a new hire. Completed training in MIA and waiting for IOE. I was a voting member of my previous airlines MEC and dealt with every issue you could imagine from sick time issues to merging (or attempting to) two airlines. I spent a little over seven years there.

I want to elaborate a little on the constant negotiations. The union, Exco and negotiating team, is always negotiating. The company will come and say what do you think about XYZ and the union has to meet and speak in the interest of the pilot group (or so we hope). Not everything that the union approaches the company about or visa versa comes out to pilot vote or is even really considered by the union but you have to entertain everything. I am certain talks about the instructors are always ongoing as are crew meals and many other things. Beyond that either party can ask to enter into new contract negotiations but is usually most effective with the company realizes the situation be it any airline.

So in my opinion, yes we are always in negotiations. This is why if we want more pay for working extra days then we need to not pick them up now, same goes for outbasing. Every time we take a hotel we shouldn't or a crew meal we shouldn't if the company is smart they mark it down so that when we are talking specific things in the future they can say well we only got 30 complaints over the last so many days on a specific issue. I am not saying do or don't do something but that if we want change it starts with us, the line pilots. The Exco, stewards, negotiating committee work for US!...

I don't know enough about the current Exco or other guys running but from initial things I have heard (if true) there are guys that really shouldn't be in leadership positions from both groups.

Also for what it is worth I am 30 and would like to make this my final airline. That being said I will not stay here if the next contract doesn't have work rules and pay that is closer to industry standard (what that will be in a year or more who knows). Not to mention retirement, sick time and training pay BS. No one should be penalized for any of those things on their paycheck.

V/R-

Nick

worldfr8dog

Agreed, thank you 744driver!

If you must, there is the Other Atlas Thread that potential interested pilots can go to get another view point but this page really should stay on point, please.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ch...-thread-7.html

NightIP

On the contrary, I agree with others that this discussion is good info for prospective hires.

Polarfr8dog

I'll try to make this short but this does belong on the newhire board so they can see what mess they're getting into.

Why are we asking about negotiating ANYTHING while we are so low at the bottom anyway? Look at SEC filings and compare upper management perks, bonuses, and salary compared to the Legacies. THEN go ask yourself why J.C. says we will never give you Delta pay rates. REALLY? Um O.K. then maybe you need to knock your bonuses down, too.

Here's an idea -- from a guy that "doesn't get it" -- AQP: Doesn't that have to be voted on? Well, spread the word for the "no" vote. Then you can go back to management and say I'm sure we could get this thing passed with more compensation (numerous ways to fill in that blank).

I'm sure you've heard this before: The pen is mightier than the sword. Yep, don't know who said it but I know it's been said. After all, I'm just a guy that "doesn't get it" Enough is enough.

For you potential new hires you need to know this so I won't be moving it to another board. Good Luck in getting here.

Talon1011

I can agree with a caveat: As long as the conversation remains primarily oriented to providing information to folks looking to join us here at Atlas then it's indeed of value. If the thread morphs in to a bickering complaint board about union stuff (as all too often happens) then the original purpose of this thread evaporates and any value to prospective Atlas pilots will be lost. That would be a shame as for many years this has been an exceptionally valuable resource.

C5nwhaleguy

This is the kind of negotiating i'm talking about....we don't get things done for the company until they fix what they have failed to implement in the current contract. I heard guys on last nights conference call say we are ready to implement AQP whenever the company and FAA can get their act together.....WHAT!!!!??? why are we leaning forward to help them get AQP when they haven't even fulfilled stuff negotiated back in 2011/current contract...trip trades, breakfast grievance.....NO NEW BUSINESS UNTIL THE OLD STUFF IS FIXED.....why is this so hard for our current guys to follow???!!! maybe i'm a simpleton but please someone explain this...but isn't this pretty basic....this is what i'm referring to as "misguided"