K4 Pilots Declaration Of Independance !
01-13-2018 | 12:33 PM
#461
VHR-very happily retired
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
From: Retired
We just got an industry leading ACMI contract, we just won an arbitration to reduce our duty times by 6 hours (thanks to Teamsters delaying the contract), and our immediate reaction is to join an organization that scabbed the last DHL strike.
This...this...is why we can't have nice things around here...
This...this...is why we can't have nice things around here...
01-13-2018 | 12:41 PM
#462
VHR-very happily retired
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
From: Retired
I care, because I work here, and don't want to choose between being a scab or losing my job next time 1224 strikes. I also care because Teamsters landed us an industry leading contract along with winning us a major duty time arbitration.
They care because they view this as bigger then two pilot groups in a dong measuring contest, just as I do. This isn't Kalitta vs. Atlas. This is ACMI pilots vs. ACMI management. Have you seriously not payed any attention to the ABX/ATI whipsaw? Because if you have any idea of what's going on over there, how can you support this? How can anyone support this? You really want to fuel that race to the bottom?
I'm so tired of hearing about the contract not being put out to vote. If you seriously believe that the couple months of lost wages is more important then a huge QoL/Schedule increase then I don't know what to tell you. Doing a 26 hour duty day and not having to airline at the end of it turning it into a 30 hour duty day is amazing. I just did the same pairing, exact scenario before and after the arbitration. Hitting the hotel room instead of cramming into the back of a 73 is pretty sweet. Thanks Teamsters!
If this contract went out to vote without the duty time limitations it would have passed. We'd have the same contract but be operating under worse duty rules. I'd say Teamsters and 1224 protected us from ourselves.
If you want to play the whole K4 against the world game...great...I think our contractual gains will be worse then sticking together as an ACMI community...
I would rather work together, avoid the whipsaw, and continuously improve this segment of the industry together with Teamsters and 1224.
They're not perfect, but they're a whole lot better then the alternative.
They care because they view this as bigger then two pilot groups in a dong measuring contest, just as I do. This isn't Kalitta vs. Atlas. This is ACMI pilots vs. ACMI management. Have you seriously not payed any attention to the ABX/ATI whipsaw? Because if you have any idea of what's going on over there, how can you support this? How can anyone support this? You really want to fuel that race to the bottom?
I'm so tired of hearing about the contract not being put out to vote. If you seriously believe that the couple months of lost wages is more important then a huge QoL/Schedule increase then I don't know what to tell you. Doing a 26 hour duty day and not having to airline at the end of it turning it into a 30 hour duty day is amazing. I just did the same pairing, exact scenario before and after the arbitration. Hitting the hotel room instead of cramming into the back of a 73 is pretty sweet. Thanks Teamsters!
If this contract went out to vote without the duty time limitations it would have passed. We'd have the same contract but be operating under worse duty rules. I'd say Teamsters and 1224 protected us from ourselves.
If you want to play the whole K4 against the world game...great...I think our contractual gains will be worse then sticking together as an ACMI community...
I would rather work together, avoid the whipsaw, and continuously improve this segment of the industry together with Teamsters and 1224.
They're not perfect, but they're a whole lot better then the alternative.
01-13-2018 | 12:45 PM
#463
VHR-very happily retired
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
From: Retired
Hmmmm.... Bigger carrier...Conflict of interest....oh Crap! That is the situation K4 is in
01-13-2018 | 05:43 PM
#467
Line Holder
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Yes there is a vote to come. Company email already sent to look for it in the USPS mailbox. Estimated to be over 80% in favor of leaving Teamsters. The remaining 20% or less, are the ones to retire soon or are so new to the company they’re still on ioe and have no idea they could’ve voted yah or nay.
We wish you all the best of wishes and good luck in your endeavor to be Teamsters. Good luck with you lawsuits. Good luck with almagation. Good luck with your contract.
But know this, all of the Kalitta guys I have taked too, are done with Teamsters. The only ones in favor of staying are the very very very very very small tiny minority of a few guys that like to repeat the same pro teamster drivel here. We are fed up with this outfit.
And almost 70% of our new hire pilots came from regionals that were whipsawed, and are smart enough to see what’s happening here with Teamsters. Just my personal observation.
We wish you all the best of wishes and good luck in your endeavor to be Teamsters. Good luck with you lawsuits. Good luck with almagation. Good luck with your contract.
But know this, all of the Kalitta guys I have taked too, are done with Teamsters. The only ones in favor of staying are the very very very very very small tiny minority of a few guys that like to repeat the same pro teamster drivel here. We are fed up with this outfit.
And almost 70% of our new hire pilots came from regionals that were whipsawed, and are smart enough to see what’s happening here with Teamsters. Just my personal observation.
01-13-2018 | 07:30 PM
#468
Banned
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 0
Yes there is a vote to come. Company email already sent to look for it in the USPS mailbox. Estimated to be over 80% in favor of leaving Teamsters. The remaining 20% or less, are the ones to retire soon or are so new to the company they’re still on ioe and have no idea they could’ve voted yah or nay.
We wish you all the best of wishes and good luck in your endeavor to be Teamsters. Good luck with you lawsuits. Good luck with almagation. Good luck with your contract.
But know this, all of the Kalitta guys I have taked too, are done with Teamsters. The only ones in favor of staying are the very very very very very small tiny minority of a few guys that like to repeat the same pro teamster drivel here. We are fed up with this outfit.
And almost 70% of our new hire pilots came from regionals that were whipsawed, and are smart enough to see what’s happening here with Teamsters. Just my personal observation.
We wish you all the best of wishes and good luck in your endeavor to be Teamsters. Good luck with you lawsuits. Good luck with almagation. Good luck with your contract.
But know this, all of the Kalitta guys I have taked too, are done with Teamsters. The only ones in favor of staying are the very very very very very small tiny minority of a few guys that like to repeat the same pro teamster drivel here. We are fed up with this outfit.
And almost 70% of our new hire pilots came from regionals that were whipsawed, and are smart enough to see what’s happening here with Teamsters. Just my personal observation.
01-13-2018 | 09:45 PM
#469
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 2
From: 747
And another day has gone by, with no answer regarding my post. Why do you all care whether K4 stays or goes? As some of you clearly point out how abysmal the working conditions are at some teamster represented companies, shouldn’t your energies be focused on fixing your messed up house instead of stirring up ours? Seriously, let it go. Go on with you life. Enough is enough. All your doing now is screaming into the face of the winds of change.
It is all about the unity of different pilot groups. The reason that the major airlines have the great contracts is that they have adopted a unified strategy to build on each other's contracts - and NOT to undercut each other.
That is what 1224 is trying to do. Actually, 1224 has a unique opportunity in that, as ACMI carriers, most of their respective airlines have many of the same customers. In the past, the customer would drive the contracts by going to the lowest bidder. Now, however, 1224 is trying to raise the bar for all of the carriers by removing that option. There is also an advantage in that many of our contracts are currently under negotiation at the same time. By coordinating strategies, it is possible to raise the bar for ALL the pilots. This can only happen when the various pilot groups work together under their union.
So, to reiterate in case you are unclear, the union status at other 1224 airlines is of vital interest to all of us. To ditch 1224 now that you have a contract is not only strategically a bad idea, but it abandons all the other DHL carriers at a time that we need to have each other's backs covered.
8
01-13-2018 | 11:30 PM
#470
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 317
Likes: 10
You do realize that what was in the original TA is what was awarded to us in what you call the huge increase. WE ALREADY HAD IT IN THE TA. This arbitration has been a huge waste of of money and time for us and has resulted in having to be subjected to 30 hour duty days for the past year, along with having to use the old rest rules for the past year. Thanks Teamsters. The rest of your post is just as full of inaccuracies
As for the status quo strike, Teamsters learned their lesson with the failed Allegiant status quo strike. Too many people knew about it and it was shut down before it could even happen by management having enough notice and being proactive.
The way Teamsters conducted the status quo strike for ABX was the only way it could be effective. Stop drinking the ALPA kool-aide as they scramble to figure out a way to spin how not to get a whole pilot group labeled as scabs.
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