UPSFO4LIFE

That is the attitude that UPS wants to hear. I am thankful for my job, but it doesn't mean I am happy to accept a move backwards in my QOL. No, the sky is not falling, but the possible domino affect that this displacement causes probably will affect you. Maybe you won't get the vacation you want. Maybe you are a lineholder now and get bumped back to RSV. Don't know what fleet you are on but the 75 domestic RSV lines are almost all 2 weeks on now. I also do not agree that some SDF Capt. will stay capt. The over 60 guys will most likely take the ANC slots leaving many SDF junior Capt. back to the right seat. Like I said before, to predict what will actually happen is almost impossible. I have already taken a deep breath, but I have gotten over just being thankfull for my job.

Precontact

Hmmmm...thinking hypothetically here...what if the over 60 crowd took all the ANC 400 Capt and F/O vacancies? What would scheduling do with those over 60 senior F/Os who can't be paired with an over 60 Capt for international flying?

Swedish Blender

FWIW, I was talking to an ACP last night about the bid and he said over 60 FEs can only go to the front seat via vacancy not displacement. If the over 60 whale FEs don't bid a front seat on the realignment, they are trapped in the back of it or the OCHO. I'm sure someone will grieve it but that is what he said. I think UPS told 63-65 group are told they'll have to go to training to discourage them from bidding for the pay.

Also, the bid said they will displace up to those numbers. No guarantee they will.

UPSFO4LIFE

One thing is for sure. This is one of the most confusing bids I have seen. You have to read the thing 10 times just to comprehend half of what is going on. So I just re-read the thing again. This is an intersting statement.

Positions remaining in excess on the B-747
classic, B-757, and MD-11, with the exception of B-747 Second Officers, after the close of the
realignment bid will be displaced in Displacement Bid 08-201.

So blender might be right about those guys being stuck if they don't go north in the realignment bid. Those old guys gonna be ****ed if this is the case.

IPAMD11FO

As much as that would benefit me personally, that is not how it will work. Nor how it should work. I know about the M&I stuff, but the contract is pretty clear. UPS may try, but they will lose. Seniority is one of the few sacred items we have in this business. I don't want to toss it out for short term gain. Nor should anyone else.

I didn't see this. Very interesting. It looks like UPS is telling all the over 60 guys to take the upgrade on the first go or forget about it. This way they can avoid the displacement vs. vacancy dilemna.

Swedish Blender

I'm just going sit back and watch since there's nothing I can do, but I'll give 2 examples those sneaky brownies could use.

1. UPS doesn't allow the over 60 guys to displace to the front seat. IPA gets a list, people submit grievances, tell the company there's a problem. Argue back and forth to a stalemate and finally decide to arbitrate it. So UPS loses and now has to pay those guys front seat pay. UPS drags it out but finally pays what they would have but saves the training cost.

2. UPS doesn't displace and just pays those guys to sit around at the FE rate instead of occurring training cycles and the higher pay/benefits.

You're right, for seniority sakes, I hope it doesn't happen.

SaltyDog

SB,
ACP a bit off, there are 17 747 S/O's being displaced. They have seniority magic. They can bid anywhere there seniority holds because of displacement. All (including age 63-65) DC-8 S/O's presently only have vacancy available to move forward. UPS is saying that if enough DC-8 S/O's move to the front (including 63-65 age group) in the ensuing vacancies, then they may BYPASS the 63-65 year old 747 S/O's for training, award them their new front seat for pay and leave them on the 74. Ultimately allowing UPS to slide them over to the 8. They will be unable to go front seat by the time this wreckage clears. There is no violation of seniority in this scenario. I fully expect to be purged from any Capt seat in SDF. I will use my seniority to stay SDF. (lucky)
but like mentioned, we all feel the blast. (Vacations, line choice, etc)

Freightpuppy

Exactly! I just hope people stay away from ONT.....it sucks out here! I'd rather be in ANC for sure.

Freightpuppy

So, an over 60 displaced FE off the whale cannot bump someone from the left seat?

This whole displacement/realignment/vacancy stuff is waaay too confusing for me. Maybe it's the pregnancy hormones but I just don't get it.

Freightpuppy

Not to be rude, but like the geezers say about the younguns and age 65.....

I guess they will just have to "deal with it". LOL!