UPS System Bid 08-101
02-26-2008, 02:26 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Dial-a-Flap
Posts: 231
I might need to go find my FE written results. 
I think we all know how to fix this problem........I just hope we can stay united and be well informed from our leaders.
What ever this company wants to do they will do. I just hope we can counter and flank "em".
I think we all know how to fix this problem........I just hope we can stay united and be well informed from our leaders.
What ever this company wants to do they will do. I just hope we can counter and flank "em".
02-26-2008, 02:29 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
So, an over 60 displaced FE off the whale cannot bump someone from the left seat?
This whole displacement/realignment/vacancy stuff is waaay too confusing for me. Maybe it's the pregnancy hormones but I just don't get it.
This whole displacement/realignment/vacancy stuff is waaay too confusing for me. Maybe it's the pregnancy hormones but I just don't get it.
It is only the 63-65 S/O's on the 74 that MAY not actually go to training and be pay protected as they bid the front seat. That would reduce only handful of bumps, the bigger impact is the drawdown on Capts and original vacancy in ANC (which is awarded in pure seniority order). Fact remains, alot more 74 displacement to happen by end of year. Round 2 yet unannounced will be more of the same.
02-26-2008, 02:39 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: The IPA EB speaks for me
Posts: 520
From ERJ Jay:
"Not to ask a dumb question, but aren't there 5 more MD11s coming this year? How can there be no vacancies on that fleet type (besides the SDF F/O)? Were you guys actually over staffed on that A/C that you could absorb 5 more and not need any more CAs?
Also, how often do they run bids? Even after this upcoming displacement bid, how far in advance of the upcoming 767 deliveries will they have to run another bid for those aircraft?"
They can drop the crew ratio on the MD-11. That's all I'll say.
"Not to ask a dumb question, but aren't there 5 more MD11s coming this year? How can there be no vacancies on that fleet type (besides the SDF F/O)? Were you guys actually over staffed on that A/C that you could absorb 5 more and not need any more CAs?
Also, how often do they run bids? Even after this upcoming displacement bid, how far in advance of the upcoming 767 deliveries will they have to run another bid for those aircraft?"
They can drop the crew ratio on the MD-11. That's all I'll say.
Last edited by MoosePileit; 02-26-2008 at 02:41 PM. Reason: fitting in the quote
02-26-2008, 02:40 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by SaltyDog
But a displacement allows them to bump by seniority into any seat they can hold.
I agree with you, if they displace from the panel. The thing is they don't have to displace FE's and the statement below leads me to believe they won't. If any over 60 guy wants a front seat, he will have to take it on the realignment bid.
Originally Posted by UPSFO4LIFE
Positions remaining in excess on the B-747 classic, B-757, and MD-11, with the exception of B-747 Second Officers, after the close of the realignment bid will be displaced in Displacement Bid 08-201.
02-26-2008, 03:32 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: UPS Captain
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by MoosePileit
From ERJ Jay:
"Not to ask a dumb question, but aren't there 5 more MD11s coming this year? How can there be no vacancies on that fleet type (besides the SDF F/O)? Were you guys actually over staffed on that A/C that you could absorb 5 more and not need any more CAs?
Also, how often do they run bids? Even after this upcoming displacement bid, how far in advance of the upcoming 767 deliveries will they have to run another bid for those aircraft?"
They can drop the crew ratio on the MD-11. That's all I'll say.
"Not to ask a dumb question, but aren't there 5 more MD11s coming this year? How can there be no vacancies on that fleet type (besides the SDF F/O)? Were you guys actually over staffed on that A/C that you could absorb 5 more and not need any more CAs?
Also, how often do they run bids? Even after this upcoming displacement bid, how far in advance of the upcoming 767 deliveries will they have to run another bid for those aircraft?"
They can drop the crew ratio on the MD-11. That's all I'll say.
That seems like a BIG problem to me. Is this the ONLY airline that works like that?
02-26-2008, 05:40 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: A300 Capt
Posts: 142
Well folks we all knew it was coming. During the recent contract voting period many of us more senior people kept saying the same things over and over again. This contract is a turd and will only be realized when UPS figures out a way around it. The age 65 rule change only emphaizes it more. For those of you who had the "bonus blinders" on well I guess it's time to eat your cake now. For the 1/3rd of us at the top it will make no difference. We can just sit back and watch all the crap take place and smile knowing we tried to do what was right. As the company recently stated we will rely soley on the pilot group to continue to pick up large amounts of OT to save the system. Why create vacancies? Just simply short staff the airline and the vast majority will make it work. Makes me smile that I am on the first page of my bid sheet.
We told you so....
JMHO
heavyjet
We told you so....
JMHO
heavyjet
02-26-2008, 05:41 PM
#37
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by JustUnderPar
That seems like a BIG problem to me. Is this the ONLY airline that works like that?
02-26-2008, 05:51 PM
#38
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by heavyjetpilot
Well folks we all knew it was coming. During the recent contract voting period many of us more senior people kept saying the same things over and over again. This contract is a turd and will only be realized when UPS figures out a way around it. The age 65 rule change only emphaizes it more. For those of you who had the "bonus blinders" on well I guess it's time to eat your cake now. For the 1/3rd of us at the top it will make no difference. We can just sit back and watch all the crap take place and smile knowing we tried to do what was right. As the company recently stated we will rely soley on the pilot group to continue to pick up large amounts of OT to save the system. Why create vacancies? Just simply short staff the airline and the vast majority will make it work. Makes me smile that I am on the first page of my bid sheet.
We told you so....
JMHO
heavyjet
We told you so....
JMHO
heavyjet
So displaced pilots couldn't bump in the last contract?
What exactly did you tell us?
What is your point exactly?
02-26-2008, 06:00 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: UPS Captain
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
I think we are the only airline that works like this. Our union seems to want to do something about it but all's been quiet about that lately. Anyone have any latest and greatest with that issue?
Management pilots into the union is THE biggest issue facing this pilot group.....not people picking up open time....give me a break!!
02-26-2008, 06:18 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: UPS Captain
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by heavyjetpilot
My point is that I tried my best to get the point across that there were many points of great concern in this contract and so many said it just wasn't so. 51% voted yes. Obviously you are an F/O and will be so considerbly longer. You will feel the impact of the contract, age 65 rule change, displacements...whatever else happens. For me about the only thing would be a total shutdown. Could it happen?. Hell yea. But until then I am safe. Many of my fellow more senior Capt.s have taken the attitude of well we tried to get everyone on the same page, nonone wanted to listen so ******em.
Let them eat the cake they bought. For me, I am still hoping for the Unity we once had. I believe that we will never be able to have a say in what goes on until this company feels it in the wallet. The first thing would be for a complete and honored days off program. Do you 75 hours and not one minute more. This isn't a OT ban, only a education process. I want you to upgrade and and anyone else who does. Until everyone is on the same page then my previous attitude applies. F-M
Let them eat the cake they bought. For me, I am still hoping for the Unity we once had. I believe that we will never be able to have a say in what goes on until this company feels it in the wallet. The first thing would be for a complete and honored days off program. Do you 75 hours and not one minute more. This isn't a OT ban, only a education process. I want you to upgrade and and anyone else who does. Until everyone is on the same page then my previous attitude applies. F-M
Question: If all line holders just flew their schedule and nothing more; would the reserves not get abused (most fleets keep 20+% or more, wonder why??)....then the company would pull the ace and use management pilots to fly the lines (since they have no contract rights on hours).....proving nothing?? The problem lies in welcoming management pilots into the union....IMHO
Last edited by JustUnderPar; 02-26-2008 at 06:27 PM.
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