I have no idea why you decided to give me a linguistic lesson on this subject?

My friend tells me he was laid off so that's what I call it... People get fired when they've done something wrong; in his and everyone else's case JAL simply canceled all contracts for western pilots... I'll let him know that according to you he was not laid off but fired, I' sure he'll feel better...


Since you chose to quote wikipedia...

Involuntary termination

Involuntary termination is the employee's departure at the hands of the employer. There are two basic types of involuntary termination, known often as being "fired" and "laid off." To be fired, as opposed to being laid off, is generally thought of to be the employee's fault, and therefore is considered in most cases to be dishonorable and a sign of failure. Often, it may hinder the new job-seeker's chances of finding new employment, particularly if he/she has been fired from earlier jobs. Job-seekers sometimes do not mention jobs which they were fired from on their résumés; accordingly, unexplained gaps in employment, and refusal to contact previous employers are often regarded as red flags.


My friend (and the rest of JAL pilots) was definitely laid off and NOT fired.


Now let's go back to helping UPSMISTAKES in hating this company, ok?

 

Maybe he was voted off.

 

Wonder what would happen if the U.S. carriers started dumping all the foreign nationals . Japan and India do this and its ok, we do it and there would be an international uproar.

 

To bring this back to the original posting...

WOW!!! So let me get this straight. You had a chance to work at SW. That in itself is one of the hardest jobs in the world to get. And you turned it down.

For good reason. You came to UPS. Which is even harder to get! Who in the heck do you know that you can have both of these jobs offered to you at the same time? Most people would kill for an interview at one of them even if they do all that it takes to get a damn interview!

I'll let you in on something you greedy punk. When you got hired at UPS, you won the pilot lottery. So either stop crying or better yet, QUIT!!!! And give the job to someone that would be more appreciative than you. Guess what. People at every airline in the world are getting displaced right now because the movement is negative in regards to seniority.

This has to be flamebait. I just cant believe what I'm seeing with the original post!

 

Well, which airline here in the US brings in “foreign nationals” to fly airplanes for them? I'm talking foreign nationals who are not legal aliens (or new citizens) and have no work permit in the US...

Yet that’s what Japan and India (and some other countries) have done in the past, they would bring in US, Canadian, European, etc. pilots simply to cover some flying for the specific airline; unfortunately for those who’d signed up for those contracts many Asian airlines have now discontinued the practice…

There are many foreign born US citizens (full disclosure - such as myself) or legal aliens (green card holders) who fly in the US however I am fairly certain you MUST be a legal alien first to fly professionally in the US.

 

So the JAL and Air India U.S. pilot where illegally in the respective countries? I think not. These countries kicked out the non citizens or native born for there own. If we did this the embassy in some third world toilet would have a riot in front of it complete with flag burning and down with america posters.

 

If the original post is a real one its very likely he initially felt he had won the pilot lottery and as the contraction appeared reality reared its ugly head. Outside looking in is very different from being on the inside.

 

I work here, you don't so I bet that I have a better perspective of a UPS pilot job than you do. Let me spell it out for you...Except for the people that I fly with, I pretty much hate it here, and I know that many of the junior pilots feel the same way after the past 2 to three years here.

I'm sorry that you couldn't get hired here or SWA. I was hired at both, so maybe you are the one who is an irrational person that nobody will hire. To be honest, I actually left a major airline to come here, and I had my choice of pretty much any place I wanted and I picked UPS. I wish I would've went to SWA though. I had the 737 type from my other legacy job, and I could be living in Vegas or somewhere nice instead of Louisville or Alaska. Screw this place!

Also, my world doesn't revolve around aviation, and I don't judge myself or anyone else based on where they work. Maybe UPS and I are just not a good fit. The corporate culture here is atrocious, and I have a serious fear that this place is going to keep getting worse year after year because of people like YOU that would do anything to work at this crap job basically because you are desperate fools.

UPS has one good thing going for it and that is the hourly rate. That is it! Everything else about working at this place SUCKS!!!! Domiciles, airplanes, schedules, MANAGERS....

There is more to life than an hourly rate. I guess you'll realize that someday. But probably not.

 

I agree with some things you say. Except my only experience with MANAGERS at this company is in ANC and they have done more for me then the IPA office and have corrected some of the crap that SDF staffers try to slip by. I still say staple.

Also I think the long haul flying on a new plane is very civilized and ANC catering is good enough for me. But you are right, its the pay and mostly the future pay that keeps me here. I just happen to be single no kids so its tolerable. ANC does suck though.

Good luck.

 

In all candor, what was your motivation or reasoning that caused you to choose UPS over SWA? The schedules and night flying certainly were known to you. Since you were offered jobs at both, clearly you had enough information to distingusih the very different lifestyles that each company offered. Since it is not about money, was it security?? Just curious because it seems peculiar that when you were hired, it was mostly to staff ANC. Am sure you must have realized the reality of that choice. Believe many would agree that SWA is about as secure as UPS job since they run a profitable company. Wish you the best in your new career. I would leave if I were that unhappy because I agree, big bucks is not worth losing my family over. Still glad I work at Brown though (FedEx, UPS, SWA were my top three)