golfandfly

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

GUMBIE

First of all this would not happen to a FQS. Try and be a professional for once and keep your important documents safe. You're all big boys. Besides with all this extra flying we cannot wipe you nose eveytime you get the sniffles.

Lets get back on topic and figure out how to get our Spartans back!

Spoon

Yeah, right, Gumbo. I'm sure that a crew of three FQS wouldn't do an illegal flight through the Canadian AMU either, right?

Signal Delta

Of course not, and thank you for the talking point. The FQS' are in one of two different scenarios at hotels: Laying over with FAR minimum rest to cover a trip that should legally be flown by a furloughed lineholder, or actually being the one breaking into the rooms.

As usual your posts are enlighenting and thought provoking. Please continue....

Signal Delta

Wow, fascinating! Nay, absolutely entriguing!

And then came a couple of World Wars, a Great Depression in-between, another labor movement or two, race riots, womens liberation, disco, the extinction of the Madagascar fruit tree bat, and employee dissatisfaction at UPS.

[edit: delete profanity]

Do you know where my dad worked for a living and what he did...no? Is that because you don't care, because it doesn't matter, and because nobody on this board cares, all because what any relative of mine did would not make me a relevant participant in these discussions? But somehow you see it appropriate to slither in because you own stock and you WILL save the public image of what has become of Jim Casey's couch stain? Huh, weird how that works.

So you were saying how great this airline is that you never worked for, but your dad did, and Scott Davis has an easy five inches down south on Jim Casey in an old passport photo or something.....

Soyathink

[edit:delete flamebait]

If you hate what you do then why do you stay? Evergreen and Atlas are hiring. I'm sure it will be much better there and you could get right in. Supposedly Evergreen hired a Dash 8 pilot so you should have no problem [edit:delete flamebait]

UPS paid for me to go to China, Pac Rim, Europe before there was an airline. I was a teenager then and guess what, I didn't lose my passport, get it stolen, get mugged and as a teenager knew what to do if it disappeared.

say that again

Soya;

I believe the bone of contention is the companies belief that the theft of the passport was the fault of the crewmember. This is no different than saying it was the woman's fault when she was raped. I've traveled overseas for UPS for 22 years, there is just no way to have your passport on your person at all times. The crewmember in question was not overseas for personal reasons, he was there to perform a service for UPS. That being said, when a corporation sends an employee overseas to perform duties, there is some degree of obligation to assist the employee. The way UPS has handled this situation is beyond belief, even if only half of the story is true. Once again this will serve to strengthen the IPA membership. On that note, UPS handled this very poorly and their actions will prove very costly. It was a very stupid decision.

SaltyDog

SYT,
You say hands need to be extended....
Many IPA hands were extended to UPS. Just under 3000.

The Memorandum Understanding (MOU) was truly a choice to mitigate the downturn in the economy. The IPA accepted the business reality. IPA asked UPS how much they projected the cost of employment for the excess pilots.
UPS accepted. Many in management extended a hand in good faith as well. truly a partnership.
UPS was paid over $100 million from its small group of pilots in less than a year.
While this was happening, UPS volumes started to rebound. FedEx made bold business decisions, chased dormant and returning markets. Southern, Kalitta, Atlas all were showing increased yields and revenues.
UPS's bold move was internal. It cut off the extended hands. Both union and management limbs fell to the floor.

It was management by numbers. Poor metrics, no leadership, and really the most expensive decision ATL could possibly produce. Do they care? Not really, those responsible will be retired before the fruits of their poor management decisions fully impact our customers, shareholders, employees, and our future viability in the marketplace.

That is what really perplexes me about UPS. They treat employees poorly, OK, thats business, Arguably poor business. What is more enigmatic, they frequently treat our customers as poorly and often with little regard. That is not good business, and gives our competitors account executives great fodder to take our business.
I long for the company that hired me. One that was owned by the managers, and managed by the owners. That UPS is no longer. It is now a corporation that leaves customers shipments behind in Hong Kong, Mumbai, Shanghai, Guanghzhou, etc. 2-3+ cans a day. One watches as the loading supervisor yells at loaders for putting the "wrong" volume in the belly in Guangzhou.

Curiously, asked why? Not enough space, that volume just showed up and the other volume was already a day late and needed to get on the airplane. Clearly UPS plan to shrink airlift capability is not keeping up with a present revitalized market internationally.
One looks about the cargo ramp and sees our competitors filling up 747-400's ERF's, 777's. UPS? MD-11's, 757's, and 767's. We have only 10 747's flying. UPS seems to readily turn down volume because it fails to make 20+% yields. Other corporations gladly take the profitable business and use it to expand profitably, even at a lower yield. If UPS desired, they could clearly dominate the cargo market as well as capture even more express market share. That is not the business plan.

One can argue that the resentment on these forums are undeserved, but those who are most were the biggest supporters of UPS before the ax fell. UPS had alternatives to a furlough. UPS rejected the easiest money they could take from the IPA.
We watch our customers treated poorly. The independent UPS franchises have sued UPS. We watch UPS reject business opportunities in the marketplace. UPS refuses to manage the business with the managers on hand. Instead they lay them off too.

Used to be a manager (retired) that made sure we line pilots and all UPSers saw posters of rusted out REA package cars as a reminder that great companies could make fatal business decisions. They are no longer hanging on the walls. I wonder if 30 years from now, someone walking down the halls of our competitors will see pictures of rusted out UPS package cars?

Rocco

[edit: note to moderators received]

[edit: delete] I hope no one at the training center in Anchorage would say stuff like this. [edit: delete] In case you want to look me up give me a call. I am on the instructor list for ANC. [edit: delete]

On another note. Has anyone gotten a phone call about furloughs in September. Mine was moved from August to sometime later. My name is missing from the next bid pack (first clue). I expected at least a phone call. Amazes me what is going on at this place.

I have really enjoyed my job and most of the people I work with. You just don't treat employees this way. What has happened here?? How long will this continue? Is this normal when a contract is coming up? It certainly sucks.

Soyathink

SaltyDog,

You said just under 3000 hands were extended but on here people have posted much different views. Looking at the posts by others, there are alot of other reasons posted that the MOU failed other than it being Atlanta's fault. Who really knows the real reason? I won't go into the other posts because I can't determine whats fact or fiction. Who has the real solid proof as to why the MOU failed other than APC postings from disgruntled employees, Crewbus rumours and He said/She said and it sounds?

I agree with you on everything else. You know how conservative UPS is, it takes forever to make a decision, very micro managed. That is something I admire with Fed Ex and why I own their stock too. They are not afraid to make decisions and get things done. Fred Smith has nuts. I remember people saying at UPS that Fed Ex would never make it. UPS going public made things worse.