UPS Furlough (Part III)
08-18-2010, 05:06 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Soyathink,
The executive Board extended our hands. We are a union, thus all extended. About 75% contributed the over $100 million. Factually, IPA failed to meet the agreed upon target. UPS and IPA agreed in June 2009 to have another sign up period (Nov/early Dec 2009). The second produced a shortage of only $13 million. UPS then doubled down and factually asked for contractual concessions or face the furlough. It appeared to be standard hardball tactics. IPA stated willing to continue the MOU and do more to extract money from IPA pilots and other opportunities to save money. UPS could have easliy harvested another $50 million more plus from the MOU alone had they stayed on that track. Additionally, they would have had a very placid pilot group going into negotiations. Likely would have saved hundreds millions more on the next contract (the MOU was like smoke on a beehive). Factually, UPS chose to turn the smoke off, and kick the nest.
Why they turned the smoke off and kicked the hive is the subject of much speculation. I have my opinions, but of no consequence. The reality: UPS chose the future course. Arguably, a poor one.
The executive Board extended our hands. We are a union, thus all extended. About 75% contributed the over $100 million. Factually, IPA failed to meet the agreed upon target. UPS and IPA agreed in June 2009 to have another sign up period (Nov/early Dec 2009). The second produced a shortage of only $13 million. UPS then doubled down and factually asked for contractual concessions or face the furlough. It appeared to be standard hardball tactics. IPA stated willing to continue the MOU and do more to extract money from IPA pilots and other opportunities to save money. UPS could have easliy harvested another $50 million more plus from the MOU alone had they stayed on that track. Additionally, they would have had a very placid pilot group going into negotiations. Likely would have saved hundreds millions more on the next contract (the MOU was like smoke on a beehive). Factually, UPS chose to turn the smoke off, and kick the nest.
Why they turned the smoke off and kicked the hive is the subject of much speculation. I have my opinions, but of no consequence. The reality: UPS chose the future course. Arguably, a poor one.
Originally Posted by Soyathink
SaltyDog,
You said just under 3000 hands were extended but on here people have posted much different views. Looking at the posts by others, there are alot of other reasons posted that the MOU failed other than it being Atlanta's fault. Who really knows the real reason? I won't go into the other posts because I can't determine whats fact or fiction. Who has the real solid proof as to why the MOU failed other than APC postings from disgruntled employees, Crewbus rumours and He said/She said and it sounds?
I agree with you on everything else. You know how conservative UPS is, it takes forever to make a decision, very micro managed. That is something I admire with Fed Ex and why I own their stock too. They are not afraid to make decisions and get things done. Fred Smith has nuts. I remember people saying at UPS that Fed Ex would never make it. UPS going public made things worse.
You said just under 3000 hands were extended but on here people have posted much different views. Looking at the posts by others, there are alot of other reasons posted that the MOU failed other than it being Atlanta's fault. Who really knows the real reason? I won't go into the other posts because I can't determine whats fact or fiction. Who has the real solid proof as to why the MOU failed other than APC postings from disgruntled employees, Crewbus rumours and He said/She said and it sounds?
I agree with you on everything else. You know how conservative UPS is, it takes forever to make a decision, very micro managed. That is something I admire with Fed Ex and why I own their stock too. They are not afraid to make decisions and get things done. Fred Smith has nuts. I remember people saying at UPS that Fed Ex would never make it. UPS going public made things worse.
08-18-2010, 05:25 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by say that again
Soya;
I believe the bone of contention is the companies belief that the theft of the passport was the fault of the crewmember. This is no different than saying it was the woman's fault when she was raped. I've traveled overseas for UPS for 22 years, there is just no way to have your passport on your person at all times. The crewmember in question was not overseas for personal reasons, he was there to perform a service for UPS. That being said, when a corporation sends an employee overseas to perform duties, there is some degree of obligation to assist the employee. The way UPS has handled this situation is beyond belief, even if only half of the story is true. Once again this will serve to strengthen the IPA membership. On that note, UPS handled this very poorly and their actions will prove very costly. It was a very stupid decision.
I believe the bone of contention is the companies belief that the theft of the passport was the fault of the crewmember. This is no different than saying it was the woman's fault when she was raped. I've traveled overseas for UPS for 22 years, there is just no way to have your passport on your person at all times. The crewmember in question was not overseas for personal reasons, he was there to perform a service for UPS. That being said, when a corporation sends an employee overseas to perform duties, there is some degree of obligation to assist the employee. The way UPS has handled this situation is beyond belief, even if only half of the story is true. Once again this will serve to strengthen the IPA membership. On that note, UPS handled this very poorly and their actions will prove very costly. It was a very stupid decision.
The bone of contention is probably very accurate being around UPS so long. If a crewmember was raped what fault is it of UPS? I know furloughed pilots feel raped by UPS.
If the crewmembers passport was stolen what fault is it of UPS? There has to be some accountablity on the crewmember? Did he do everything he needed to do? Did have a backup passport? Did he have all his documents copied and backed up on a computer? The majority of the companies would tell you to call the embassy, that there is nothing they could do. This victims mentality that seems to be popular in todays age. Everybody thinks something is owed to them, why?
I posted before ways to prevent things like this from happening. Use an online safe. Hopefully it will help somebody.
08-18-2010, 05:28 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by Rocco
Well from what you started the thread with it seems apparent that as long as you allow Gumbie and Soya to post on here it will remain a flamebait thread.
I think Soya means well. He is entitled to his opinion. He makes an argument at least. I guess you gave up on the FedEx guys??
Gumbie on the other has had nothing really to say. I sure hope he is not the one someone suggested. I hope no one at the training center in Anchorage would say stuff like this. If so I feel sorry for him. Even if he thinks this is entertaining, it is not. In case you want to look me up give me a call. I am on the instructor list for ANC. I doubt you have the courage though.
On another note. Has anyone gotten a phone call about furloughs in September. Mine was moved from August to sometime later. My name is missing from the next bid pack (first clue). I expected at least a phone call. Amazes me what is going on at this place.
I have really enjoyed my job and most of the people I work with. You just don't treat employees this way. What has happened here?? How long will this continue? Is this normal when a contract is coming up? It certainly sucks.
I think Soya means well. He is entitled to his opinion. He makes an argument at least. I guess you gave up on the FedEx guys??
Gumbie on the other has had nothing really to say. I sure hope he is not the one someone suggested. I hope no one at the training center in Anchorage would say stuff like this. If so I feel sorry for him. Even if he thinks this is entertaining, it is not. In case you want to look me up give me a call. I am on the instructor list for ANC. I doubt you have the courage though.
On another note. Has anyone gotten a phone call about furloughs in September. Mine was moved from August to sometime later. My name is missing from the next bid pack (first clue). I expected at least a phone call. Amazes me what is going on at this place.
I have really enjoyed my job and most of the people I work with. You just don't treat employees this way. What has happened here?? How long will this continue? Is this normal when a contract is coming up? It certainly sucks.
Yes the Fed Ex thing is done. It was dropped off the bill. I think everybody knows my opinion on it. Unless it is reintroduced then there is no need to spend more time on it.
I do mean well.
08-18-2010, 05:46 AM
#84
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by say that again
The way UPS has handled this situation is beyond belief, even if only half of the story is true. Once again this will serve to strengthen the IPA membership. On that note, UPS handled this very poorly and their actions will prove very costly. It was a very stupid decision.
Regardless of what happened to the passport (lost, stolen, thrown in the garbage, whatever) the company could have helped out just A LITTLE. I mean, the guy called the ACP emergency line and never even got a call back....nuff said! Even if it was his fault, couldn't the company have been a little more helpful? C'mon, soyathink, even you have to admit they COULD HAVE!
08-18-2010, 05:48 AM
#85
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by Rocco
I have really enjoyed my job and most of the people I work with. You just don't treat employees this way. What has happened here?? How long will this continue? Is this normal when a contract is coming up? It certainly sucks.
08-18-2010, 06:03 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
The bottom line is this:
Regardless of what happened to the passport (lost, stolen, thrown in the garbage, whatever) the company could have helped out just A LITTLE. I mean, the guy called the ACP emergency line and never even got a call back....nuff said! Even if it was his fault, couldn't the company have been a little more helpful? C'mon, soyathink, even you have to admit they COULD HAVE!
Regardless of what happened to the passport (lost, stolen, thrown in the garbage, whatever) the company could have helped out just A LITTLE. I mean, the guy called the ACP emergency line and never even got a call back....nuff said! Even if it was his fault, couldn't the company have been a little more helpful? C'mon, soyathink, even you have to admit they COULD HAVE!
08-18-2010, 06:23 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 397
Rocco,
I forgot to add something.
I was very anti union growing up. I experienced what unions do to people. It would blow your mind. I'm talking a lot worse than flying a banner over a management golf outing. I believe in Unions now. Unions are needed, just not the militant ways I had seen in my life. Same things in management.
I was really shocked at the replies from the Fed Ex Pilots. I thought that it would help their bargaining positions. It would help their fellow workers. I didn't expect the insults. I grew up in a extreme union city. If you were union no matter what union it was you had the support of the other unions. The UPS Strike in 1997 showed me that still existed. The Fed Ex thing showed me something different.
I meant well.
Good luck and I hope you don't get furloughed.
I forgot to add something.
I was very anti union growing up. I experienced what unions do to people. It would blow your mind. I'm talking a lot worse than flying a banner over a management golf outing. I believe in Unions now. Unions are needed, just not the militant ways I had seen in my life. Same things in management.
I was really shocked at the replies from the Fed Ex Pilots. I thought that it would help their bargaining positions. It would help their fellow workers. I didn't expect the insults. I grew up in a extreme union city. If you were union no matter what union it was you had the support of the other unions. The UPS Strike in 1997 showed me that still existed. The Fed Ex thing showed me something different.
I meant well.
Good luck and I hope you don't get furloughed.
08-18-2010, 06:36 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 320
Originally Posted by Soyathink
Say:
If the crewmembers passport was stolen what fault is it of UPS? There has to be some accountablity on the crewmember?
If the crewmembers passport was stolen what fault is it of UPS? There has to be some accountablity on the crewmember?
Last edited by TonyWilliams; 08-18-2010 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Please don't post profanity, even misspelled
08-18-2010, 07:01 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
Agreed, and what did the company gain by stranding the crewmember.
My phone rings daily with "This is UPS with a JA opportunity". I just would have thought the company would have done a better job.
As an aside, whenever I want to change hotels, D/Hs or anything of the sort, I deal with the gateways directly. The gateways in ICN and HKG are some of the best...at least to me the past three years. Dealing with Louisville usually amounts to a "No" with some Draconian reason attached to it.
It may have been mentioned, but what city was this in.
FF
My phone rings daily with "This is UPS with a JA opportunity". I just would have thought the company would have done a better job.
As an aside, whenever I want to change hotels, D/Hs or anything of the sort, I deal with the gateways directly. The gateways in ICN and HKG are some of the best...at least to me the past three years. Dealing with Louisville usually amounts to a "No" with some Draconian reason attached to it.
It may have been mentioned, but what city was this in.
FF
08-20-2010, 06:51 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,544
Why doesn't the UPS do something similar to what FedEx did to stop furloughs? UPS decided they need to cut some costs. So there are two ways to do it.
1. Furlough pilots
2. Temporarily cut pilot pay by the same amount of money to result in no furloughs.
If there are 2800 pilots at UPS, and about 300 need to be furloughed to generate that cost savings, what if every UPS pilot just took a temporary 10% pay cut. Then UPS would get the cost savings it needs, no one would be furloughed, and UPS would still be able to fly more cargo which would lead to more profits that eventually the pilots could leverage and get back anyway.
1. Furlough pilots
2. Temporarily cut pilot pay by the same amount of money to result in no furloughs.
If there are 2800 pilots at UPS, and about 300 need to be furloughed to generate that cost savings, what if every UPS pilot just took a temporary 10% pay cut. Then UPS would get the cost savings it needs, no one would be furloughed, and UPS would still be able to fly more cargo which would lead to more profits that eventually the pilots could leverage and get back anyway.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
