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Old 05-26-2021, 03:47 PM   #3031  
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Originally Posted by pitchtrim View Post
Who said they're trying to go the other direction?
Your board of directors (ATSG) at their last earnings calls indicated a reduction of one, possibly two, aircraft at Omni and indicated that 2020 was an exceptional year which is not likely to be repeated.

Additionally, my guess is ya'll would be seeing hard furloughs if Omni had not received federal paycheck protection loans (which forbid hard furloughs). My best guess is that when that protection runs out in 3 months - that you'll end up seeing those hard furloughs.

Rest of the industry is adding airplanes and crews; if your airline is actively doing the opposite I would not call it a good deal.
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Old 05-26-2021, 05:20 PM   #3032  
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Originally Posted by 4dalulz View Post
Your board of directors (ATSG) at their last earnings calls indicated a reduction of one, possibly two, aircraft at Omni and indicated that 2020 was an exceptional year which is not likely to be repeated.

Additionally, my guess is ya'll would be seeing hard furloughs if Omni had not received federal paycheck protection loans (which forbid hard furloughs). My best guess is that when that protection runs out in 3 months - that you'll end up seeing those hard furloughs.

Rest of the industry is adding airplanes and crews; if your airline is actively doing the opposite I would not call it a good deal.
Initially you said Omni is furloughing, now you're guessing. What we know is they took government money like the rest of the industry took and not all of their flying has returned to pre covid levels yet. Time will tell how it pans out. For those in the pool they'll be waiting till things pick up.
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Old 05-27-2021, 06:22 AM   #3033  
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Originally Posted by 4dalulz View Post
Your board of directors (ATSG) at their last earnings calls indicated a reduction of one, possibly two, aircraft at Omni and indicated that 2020 was an exceptional year which is not likely to be repeated.

Additionally, my guess is ya'll would be seeing hard furloughs if Omni had not received federal paycheck protection loans (which forbid hard furloughs). My best guess is that when that protection runs out in 3 months - that you'll end up seeing those hard furloughs.

Rest of the industry is adding airplanes and crews; if your airline is actively doing the opposite I would not call it a good deal.
The one hull was due for heavy checks, they converted it to a freighter. It was also the oddball of the fleet in terms of flight deck setup & equipment. Letting it go saved a crapload of money in differences training, OE requirements, currency requirements, and scheduling headaches. It was a sound business decision.

We kept hiring through all of 2020 while everybody was furloughing; in spite of the fact that the contract they were all being hired for was cancelled by Covid. Several commercial contracts were suspended due to Covid very early last year. Nope, not a single furlough.

They have been doing a great job getting new flying, if that effort continues as the world comes out from under lockdown, we're going to need more planes and more pilots. This summer leave has recall at any time with 14 days notice. My bet is that 14 day recall to duty option will get used a lot as the world reopens.
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Old 05-27-2021, 07:58 AM   #3034  
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Initially you said Omni is furloughing, now you're guessing. What we know is they took government money like the rest of the industry took and not all of their flying has returned to pre covid levels yet. Time will tell how it pans out. For those in the pool they'll be waiting till things pick up.
Well if it wasn't forbidden by the bailout money then it would in fact be a furlough (see below). It seems that your flying actually exceeded COVID levels...

Quote:
So last year we look at as a very unusual year for Omni because of the recovery flights that they ended up getting, and they didn't have much of a dip in their business, other than the commercial stuff that went away toward the end of the first quarter. And they actually outperformed what they did the year prior because of all the supplemental flights they were getting to get folks out of COVID hotspots and things like that and some additional governmental flying. So it was a very unusual year last year for Omni.
Ofcourse time will tell - but the omens are not good. I wouldn't be holding out for Omni if I was a guy in the pool.

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Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
The one hull was due for heavy checks, they converted it to a freighter. It was also the oddball of the fleet in terms of flight deck setup & equipment. Letting it go saved a crapload of money in differences training, OE requirements, currency requirements, and scheduling headaches. It was a sound business decision.
I can see that being the case of a single airplane, but they obviously forecast reduced flying if they are in fact not replacing it (which you may know more being there - but ATSG didn't sound like they intended to replace it)

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Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
We kept hiring through all of 2020 while everybody was furloughing; in spite of the fact that the contract they were all being hired for was cancelled by Covid. Several commercial contracts were suspended due to Covid very early last year. Nope, not a single furlough.
In fact noone (significant) in the industry furloughed because it was not permitted under the bailout schemes, but we'd all be being dishonest with ourselves if any of these companies would not furlough us - the fact that Omni is doing the "pay to stay home" thing a year after everyone else was should be concerning in that the "recovery" seems to be coming everywhere except there. The fact that ATSG Board of Directors said the followinig would be of tremendous concern to me;

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We mentioned in our earnings release that Omni Air expects to receive 83 million in federal payroll support payments this year, the majority of which we have already received. These funds require Omni to refrain from involuntary furloughs of its flight crews and other personnel at least through September.
So if you guys are doing a 3 month voluntary furlough/leave (or whatever it's called) that would be what? June, July, August... September would see hard furloughs - or at least this seems to be the path ATSG is hinting at.
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Old 05-27-2021, 02:21 PM   #3035  
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Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
The one hull was due for heavy checks, they converted it to a freighter. It was also the oddball of the fleet in terms of flight deck setup & equipment. Letting it go saved a crapload of money in differences training, OE requirements, currency requirements, and scheduling headaches. It was a sound business decision.

We kept hiring through all of 2020 while everybody was furloughing; in spite of the fact that the contract they were all being hired for was cancelled by Covid. Several commercial contracts were suspended due to Covid very early last year. Nope, not a single furlough.

They have been doing a great job getting new flying, if that effort continues as the world comes out from under lockdown, we're going to need more planes and more pilots. This summer leave has recall at any time with 14 days notice. My bet is that 14 day recall to duty option will get used a lot as the world reopens.

/|\

Word up!

Ha. No really, that's all reality and logic. Nicely said.
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Old 05-27-2021, 03:27 PM   #3036  
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Originally Posted by pitchtrim View Post
Initially you said Omni is furloughing, now you're guessing. What we know is they took government money like the rest of the industry took and not all of their flying has returned to pre covid levels yet. Time will tell how it pans out. For those in the pool they'll be waiting till things pick up.
So I'm basing these guesses off of published factual information - while I can't speak for the exact feeling on the line or rumors or factual information ya'll have in your group - it is apparent that things are not as rosy as you make them out to be, nor are they necessarily as dire as my tone may be conveying. This being said, the 21Q1 results published by ATSG are not indicative of a company which is growing with the rest of the industry, but more of one which is hoping to recover to 2019 levels in 2022.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
The one hull was due for heavy checks, they converted it to a freighter. It was also the oddball of the fleet in terms of flight deck setup & equipment. Letting it go saved a crapload of money in differences training, OE requirements, currency requirements, and scheduling headaches. It was a sound business decision.
You'd know the details of that specific airframe, but the fact that it's not being replaced with another airframe would indicate that the demand does not exist or the company cannot identify a business case for the additional airframe; this should be concerning if the rest of the industry is rising around you and you're reducing your fleet and staffing levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
We kept hiring through all of 2020 while everybody was furloughing; in spite of the fact that the contract they were all being hired for was cancelled by Covid. Several commercial contracts were suspended due to Covid very early last year. Nope, not a single furlough.
Well, technically no (significant) player furloughed last year since the bailout money protected them. The reality that your (ATSG) board of directors though stated as a matter of fact during their recent earnings call is as follows:

Quote:
keep in mind that one of the conditions on accepting the payroll protection is we cannot furlough or lay off any employees at Omni. As it relates to whether those employees, whether it be administrative or crews or maintenance or what have you, are commensurate with the volumes that they're currently flying, right. So that's one issue where if the flying is down under regular circumstances, you may look to reduce your workforce to match the flying that you have. We're not able to do that right now, so we'll be carrying folks. And as the plan goes, we're going to need them later in the - by the third - by the end of the third quarter, anyway, based on the way the pilot - based on the way the plan is ramping. So - but that's one thing to keep in mind is that we're - in accepting that revenue, we're not able to cut personnel costs.
On it's face this doesn't sound too bad and leaves an opening for a return of business later (though that makes me wonder if you guys are going to be getting additional airframes by then?) However, when coupled with the statement below it becomes more concerning, especially given that the 3 month leave (or whatever it is called) will coincidentally end with the first month that actual furloughs would be allowed (September).

Quote:
These funds require Omni to refrain from involuntary furloughs of its flight crews and other personnel at least through September.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
They have been doing a great job getting new flying, if that effort continues as the world comes out from under lockdown, we're going to need more planes and more pilots. This summer leave has recall at any time with 14 days notice. My bet is that 14 day recall to duty option will get used a lot as the world reopens.
Is it really a "great" job when you're parking planes and trying to reduce staffing?
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Old 05-28-2021, 05:30 PM   #3037  
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Personally I'm rooting for Omni, people seem to like working there and that says a lot about an organization. I'm guessing that we will experience a nice surge post covid and there will be opportunities for companies with a charter business model.

Go Omni I say....
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Old 05-29-2021, 03:01 PM   #3038  
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Originally Posted by The Dominican View Post
Personally I'm rooting for Omni, people seem to like working there and that says a lot about an organization. I'm guessing that we will experience a nice surge post covid and there will be opportunities for companies with a charter business model.

Go Omni I say....
As an Omni poolie, I am hoping you are correct.
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Old 05-29-2021, 06:36 PM   #3039  
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Sorry about the double post up there. Posted once - glitched - came back later and posted again - glitched. Gave up. Guess they both showed up now. Maybe a moderator can delete one of them?
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Old 05-30-2021, 06:47 AM   #3040  
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Is it really a "great" job when you're parking planes and trying to reduce staffing?
Well,
No planes are parked
No staffing has been reduced. A paid leave is not a staffing reduction anymore than guys going on military leave is.

Yeah, it was a great job by all putting it all together.

They did this because it benefited everybody, nothing more. They certainly didn't have to, or even need to do it. Nobody was forced to take a leave. I honestly hope they offer the paid leaves again in the future when it benefits everybody. Late November, December and January are usually slower months; I'd love paid leave over the holidays. They've laid the groundwork to be able to pull this LOA out, dust it off, and offer similar things in the future. That benefits us all.

The end result is 15 pilots were granted paid leave. Not everybody got all 3 months, or even 2 months; many were 1 month only. If you think savings of about $220k over 3 months was going to make/break the company then you're a fool.
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