I think you are referring to 9E freshmen. Most of us are aware we aren’t Deltas. I’ll take the positive space 2nd flight over that S1.

That contract was a scope concession from the pilot group. That pilots try to sell it themselves as a win is sickening. You are celebrating reducing the number of airframes of a type that Delta was already parking (the 50 seaters) in exchange for allowing MORE of the planes they wanted (76 seaters) as a win?

You not only didn't "improve" RJ scope, you sold more of it.

Disagree. How is going form 683 to 450 a concession. If you don't like those numbers then give me the total seats at 683 compared to 450.

Denny

You're somehow missing their point. Its a simple point. Delta agreed to scope in the 50seat RJs to a very small number (which was going to happen as it was announced before even TA1 those planes would go away) while increasing the allowed number of 70 and 76 seat aircraft, which is what Delta wants to replace the regional fleet with. So you dropped a large number of 50 seaters from the scope, but that was a plan (without a concrete number) already. You may be cheering economic eventuality is all theyre saying.

Personally i think letting more large RJs into the tent may eliminate mainline jobs, and while it may just be a bigger pie for everyone, i want every bit of that narrow body flying in house

No I'm not missing the point. I'm looking at the overall big picture.

You say it was a plan already. Care to prove it? Yes I know that the amount of 76 seaters was increased but overall it was a Scope gain. Less overall RJ's AND less overall seats by not an insignificant amount.

Denny

Wrong. We celebrated a huge reduction in the percentage of domestic passengers that were flown by non Delta Pilots. This percentage was huge and peaked around 2010-2012. The percentage of passengers flying on RJs has been steadily decreasing over the last decade.

Saying this was a bad move because 50 seaters were being parked anyway is faulty logic. Did this accelerate parking 50 seaters or not? Did overall numbers trend in the right direction or not? Finally who knows what alternative fleet plan the company could have went with had things been different.

In the last decade the total number of RJs, total RJ seats, and the percentage of passengers flying on mainline have all been trending in the right direction.

DALPA legitimately screwed up many things regarding Scope, TA-2 was not one of them.

Scoop

It was already part of the plan in 2012. This was part of the Pinnacle BK. 140+ CRJ-200 was a 10 year deal with NWA that carried over. With the Pinnacle BK, it was a way for Delta to eliminate a big chunk of those 50 seater. During that time Pinnacle/Mesaba had 50 ish 76 seater. Now that Pinnacle/Mesaba became Endeavor they have 100+ 76 seater. The point was the majority of the 50 seater at Endeavor was already going away. The parking of those planes started before you guys got your last TA. It was down to 25 CRJ-200 at one point in 2014-2015 not long before I left Endeavor.

I think the point the other guy was trying to make is, the 50 seater was already going away (which was part of the Pinnacle BK) that there was no need to allow more 76 seater.

If the 50 seater was going away....why doEs Delta still have them? There were a lot more 50 seaters than just the ones at Pinnacle. Stating that the 50 seaters were going away regardless is faulty logic. Delta was/is really good at shuffling RJ’s between DCI carriers. Look what’s happening now with the consolidation to 3 DCI carriers. Delta was under contract with more than one DCI carrier with years to go with the 50 seaters. Allowing a minimal amount of 76 seaters was an enticement to the DCI carriers so Delta could modify the contracted lift and get rid of a lot of 50 seaters sooner rather than years into the future.

The bottom line is it was a scope win with less total RJ’s and way less total seats. If y’all can’t see this you are being myopic and need to look at the big picture.

Denny

It was a huge win for the pilots and resulted in Delta hiring more pilots than the other major airlines combined over the life of the contract. Without the changes in the 76 seat limits Delta would not have been able to get the existing lift contracts terminated and renegotiated. Results matter, they were far better than the forum projected.

The changes to the 76 seat limit actually saved 9E, and Endeavor would not exist today without them. The plan was to use 9E's 76 seat jets to exchange for 50 seaters at other carriers, if you had not moved the limit.

The 50 seaters are required by the government in some markets; Same as with some 76 seaters for DCA operations. If you recapture all scope, mainline pilots must fly RJ's, or else surrender major market share.