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Old 07-16-2021 | 11:51 AM
  #1401  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad
Fair enough. It would have to be one heck of a package.
Rule #1: No Scope Sales - that is somebody's job you are trying to sell.

Sailing's additional 120 minutes to long call is worthless. Been used all but a couple of days over my entire career on mostly reserve. With the number of short call windows and the length of rotations this is literally a "no cost" item for the company.
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Old 07-16-2021 | 11:54 AM
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Gunfighter
Is the arbitrator bound to the timeline in our PWA?

I don't see where there is any middle ground for a settlement. Its not like either side will come back with 17 jets. The company was given (has taken) a free kick on the goal. It's either a goal or a miss.
This is why we should be informational picketing... We should not have ceded this issue to arbitration when we had a better forum to fight this fight for jobs; in public.

If we lose the arbitration (and I tend to think we will) then we will be angry, but our public options are limited by the fact we pushed the process to a loss and the public will want us to respect the process.
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Old 07-16-2021 | 11:57 AM
  #1403  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
The company offers something of value for bringing the aircraft online. Say a 14 hour long call. The union has to decide if taking the long call verses possibly losing the arbitration and getting nothing is a smart move. As I mentioned a arbitrator might provide discreet guidance which way he is leaning to try and force a settlement.
The only thing we have to exchange is scope and that isn't for sale. We either win or lose, there is no middle ground on this one. If it were anything besides scope, we could discuss middle ground.
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Old 07-16-2021 | 11:58 AM
  #1404  
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The weak hands are showing. We negotiate anything it sets the tone for the foreseeable future. If DALPA attempts any type of negotiating for scope it’s time for new leadership.
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Old 07-16-2021 | 12:22 PM
  #1405  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Rule #1: No Scope Sales - that is somebody's job you are trying to sell.

Sailing's additional 120 minutes to long call is worthless. Been used all but a couple of days over my entire career on mostly reserve. With the number of short call windows and the length of rotations this is literally a "no cost" item for the company.
I agree, I would vote against any scope sale no matter what is “offered”. What I meant was that for it to even get to the table it would have to be a huge package.
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Old 07-16-2021 | 12:25 PM
  #1406  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Rule #1: No Scope Sales - that is somebody's job you are trying to sell.

Sailing's additional 120 minutes to long call is worthless. Been used all but a couple of days over my entire career on mostly reserve. With the number of short call windows and the length of rotations this is literally a "no cost" item for the company.
You must not have understood that I was providing a simple example of how things might work and not suggesting a final solution or package. My post was in response to the comment that there was nothing to negotiate. FYI a 14 hour long call would allow many commuters to spend extra nights at home vice a crash pad. Some might find value in that. Others might find value in positive space or a pay raise. Everyone has different wants and needs.
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Old 07-16-2021 | 12:35 PM
  #1407  
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If we give up scope again, the company better have to pry it from our cold, dead hands.
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Old 07-16-2021 | 12:38 PM
  #1408  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
This is why we should be informational picketing... We should not have ceded this issue to arbitration when we had a better forum to fight this fight for jobs; in public.

If we lose the arbitration (and I tend to think we will) then we will be angry, but our public options are limited by the fact we pushed the process to a loss and the public will want us to respect the process.

If we lose, we lose. But we send the message we aren’t willing to negotiate scope away.


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Old 07-16-2021 | 12:41 PM
  #1409  
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Are some of you saying the 35 RJs are non negotiable? Since these RJs (CRJ900s and/or E175s) are fairly new and have been flying in the system since the arrival of the 717 if DALPA wins the arbitration I think the company would be willing to pay a pretty penny to bring them back instead of burn $100s of millions in aircraft expense.

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Old 07-16-2021 | 12:49 PM
  #1410  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Trip7
Are some of you saying the 35 RJs are non negotiable? Since these RJs (CRJ900s and/or E175s) are fairly new and have been flying in the system since the arrival of the 717 if DALPA wins the arbitration I think the company would be willing to pay a pretty penny to bring them back instead of burn $100s of millions in aircraft expense.

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The arc of history bends towards justice.

Delta's outsourcing of the same class and craft of organized labor is morally wrong.

Hundreds of millions does not make it correct. Each new hire's career is probably worth $10,000,000 or more (depending on the age they get in the door). Taken from either perspective, the right thing to do is to have Delta pilots perform Delta flying.
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