35 Large RJs coming back?
05-29-2021, 04:42 AM
#981
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by PT6flyer
After reading into arbitration cases it seems that an arbitrator can find a violation and then offer a remedy. It would seem that a not likely remedy would be the grounding of 35 large RJs when Delta is in recovery mode. Since you guys are in section 6 but most likely not pursuing negotiations (Since Delta is not profitable), what would be the most plausible remedy? I would bet it's to just keep the current LOA 9 deal until a date set in the future. I would just like to point out again, how are the Delta pilots harmed in this? Delta and DALPA fully agreed to LOA 9 at one time, which this LOA offers "either at the feeder carrier affiliate referenced in such LOAs or at another carrier, the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft".
The 35 aircraft are to be flown by Delta seniority list pilots. How those pilots need to become Delta seniority list pilots is up to Delta. They'll either get the current 90 seat RJ rate in the Delta PWA, or whatever Delta negotiates with ALPA. To secure the moral high ground, the type and the jobs, I'd be in the neighborhood of the current book. Then fix the "B scale" later.
05-29-2021, 05:41 AM
#982
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,767
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
The Association should make this about jobs (not pay).
The 35 aircraft are to be flown by Delta seniority list pilots. How those pilots need to become Delta seniority list pilots is up to Delta. They'll either get the current 90 seat RJ rate in the Delta PWA, or whatever Delta negotiates with ALPA. To secure the moral high ground, the type and the jobs, I'd be in the neighborhood of the current book. Then fix the "B scale" later.
The 35 aircraft are to be flown by Delta seniority list pilots. How those pilots need to become Delta seniority list pilots is up to Delta. They'll either get the current 90 seat RJ rate in the Delta PWA, or whatever Delta negotiates with ALPA. To secure the moral high ground, the type and the jobs, I'd be in the neighborhood of the current book. Then fix the "B scale" later.
05-29-2021, 05:53 AM
#983
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,306
Originally Posted by theUpsideDown
we can't do a B scale can we? To date, i believe its the only contract provision national says they will over rule.
Having said that I don’t support artificially low rates to get equipment on the property. It leads to lots of unintended issues down the road. The same applies to retaining equipment like the Express deal we caved on when management threatened to move the 737-200’s to Comair.
05-29-2021, 06:14 AM
#984
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Supreme Allied Commander
Posts: 1,056
If we assume the "cut & paste" argument the company makes is indeed correct, they can provide a flow-down unilaterally to anywhere they want. Replace Compass with Uganda Express, or Trans Siberia Airways. "Agree to cuts or we'll furlough, or worse, flow down your a$$ to Kamchatka!"
Flow down is an insurance benefit for OUR pilots. The company could care less that we could flow down at all, it does nothing for them. To think we have zero participation to decide what airline our pilots get sent to violates the spirit of the agreement.
Flow down is an insurance benefit for OUR pilots. The company could care less that we could flow down at all, it does nothing for them. To think we have zero participation to decide what airline our pilots get sent to violates the spirit of the agreement.
05-29-2021, 06:33 AM
#985
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,306
Originally Posted by saturn
If we assume the "cut & paste" argument the company makes is indeed correct, they can provide a flow-down unilaterally to anywhere they want. Replace Compass with Uganda Express, or Trans Siberia Airways. "Agree to cuts or we'll furlough, or worse, flow down your a$$ to Kamchatka!"
Flow down is an insurance benefit for OUR pilots. The company could care less that we could flow down at all, it does nothing for them. To think we have zero participation to decide what airline our pilots get sent to violates the spirit of the agreement.
Flow down is an insurance benefit for OUR pilots. The company could care less that we could flow down at all, it does nothing for them. To think we have zero participation to decide what airline our pilots get sent to violates the spirit of the agreement.
05-29-2021, 06:36 AM
#986
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: E170 CA/LCA
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by sailingfun
In order for a pilot to flow down he has to be furloughed. That can trigger lots on undesirable things for the company with the most important being the RJ seat reduction. Those who might feel it’s not important need only look at how the company managed the MOAD and where the cut line was. That also brings up the importance of getting contracts done in a timely manner. Had we completed the contract on time full furlough protection would have extended down almost to the bottom of the list and vastly increased our leverage as covid rolled in.
How would furlough protection have been extended down?
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05-29-2021, 06:42 AM
#987
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,306
Originally Posted by 170driver
How would furlough protection have been extended down?
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
05-29-2021, 06:44 AM
#988
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,571
Originally Posted by 170driver
How would furlough protection have been extended down?
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
05-29-2021, 06:50 AM
#989
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: E170 CA/LCA
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by sailingfun
In most, if not all contracts I have been involved in furlough protection applied to all pilots on the property as of the date of signing the contract.
Thank you guys. Coming from a regional so our contracts are childs play in comparison.
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05-29-2021, 08:46 AM
#990
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,767
Originally Posted by saturn
If we assume the "cut & paste" argument the company makes is indeed correct, they can provide a flow-down unilaterally to anywhere they want. Replace Compass with Uganda Express, or Trans Siberia Airways. "Agree to cuts or we'll furlough, or worse, flow down your a$$ to Kamchatka!"
Flow down is an insurance benefit for OUR pilots. The company could care less that we could flow down at all, it does nothing for them. To think we have zero participation to decide what airline our pilots get sent to violates the spirit of the agreement.
Flow down is an insurance benefit for OUR pilots. The company could care less that we could flow down at all, it does nothing for them. To think we have zero participation to decide what airline our pilots get sent to violates the spirit of the agreement.
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