I don't think you understand the use of NDA's. From the presentations there was information that was not releasable - yet - they were very clear on that when they got to the discussions. No one in the room were given NDA's to sign. We were asked to keep mobile devices stowed. Pretty sure the real juicy stuff is very close holed in the C-suites and I'm sure those cats all signed NDA's. So they couldn't even tell us the good/bad stuff during the presentations.

Let's see when Feb comes around.

 

whatever happened to the max 8 rumor? That one seemed to wither away recently.

 

I always see a question about the Endeavor flow programs on here about once a month so I thought I would make a post explaining the programs.

Endeavor Flow Program/LOA 125
-Implemented on June 3, 2021 and only includes pilots that were on the seniority list at the date of signing.
-Allows 20 pilots or 50% of Delta's monthly hiring, whichever is less, to flow to Delta
-No requirement to flow other than completed training as a Captain. You could finish your Captain OE training and flow the next day if you somehow managed that.
-No penalty for interviewing with Delta, aka OTS, before your flow date.
-No protection clause in case Delta crams all of their hiring into a three month period. If Delta doesn't hire a specific month, then no Endeavor pilots will flow either
-Flows will get their seniority number on their 'flow date' and will be given higher seniority than any other new hires for that same month.
-Endeavor has an option to invoke a thee month hold back for flows. The pilots will still receive their seniority number, and aircraft assignment, on their flow date and will have a class date three months later.


Career Advancement Program/CAP/LOA 129

-Includes new hires after the original flow agreement, LOA 125, was implemented.
-Allows 20 pilots or 50% of Delta's monthly hiring, whichever is less, to advance to Delta
-Must serve 24 months in the Captain position and cannot have 2 or more unsatisfactory events during LOE or line checks, or have received a disciplinary letter.
-Pilots may attempt an OTS interview with Delta, but if they do not get hired they lose the right to advance to Delta under CAP
-CAP does not start until all the pilots under LOA 125 have flowed or declined the flow.
-I thought there was a protection clause that guaranteed some advancement during no hire months but it appears there is not. Someone can correct me on this if I am wrong.
-Flows will get their seniority number on their 'flow date' and will be given higher seniority than any other new hires for that same month.
-Endeavor has an option to invoke a thee month hold back for flows. The pilots will still receive their seniority number, and aircraft assignment, on their flow date and will have a class date three months later.

Hope that helps to answer some of the questions regarding the flow programs.

 

Once the word gets out hiring is slated to resume officially, will those endeavor flows be the first to know? Just wondering how it’s been done in the past

 

I wonder if this plays a role in why hiring/seniority numbers ran for only 3 months in 2025 and stopped (with 90-day holdback to May). To limit flows - as a bug or feature?

 

I don’t think limiting flows is a big deal to Delta anymore. There isn’t a pilot shortage at any level now.

 

Thats only one possible reason…

To put this delicately, the other possibility is performance. Though I think the rates of flows having training problems/failures has dropped notably as they have gotten past the oldest pilots.

I don’t mean that as a slander at all. It has to be a challenge to make that change after 20-30 years in the same aircraft. It may not have a thing to do with why we had a short hiring season last year, it just made me wonder if it could have played any role?

 

To my knowledge no. By the time we had information about Delta hiring it was mostly public knowledge

I think this is exactly what happened. For the past 3 years since the flow, until last fall, Delta has had monthly classes. Unfortunately, I don't think 9E ALPA even thought of that possibility. I am interested to see what will happen though because I have heard there is a significant amount of Captains at Endeavor that have CJO's with United and are planning to leave when they resume hiring. Enough that the number 100 was thrown around for monthly attrition. Management is apparently scrambling to find a new retention program just after they got rid of the last one. Most people also don't realize that Delta incorporated Propel and STEP into Endeavor since no regionals were hiring them, knowing those pilots would leave for Delta after so many hours. All those Propel and STEP pilots who were promised a quick route to Delta now have a 7+ year wait if they choose to wait for the flow.

 

I really don’t think the flow had anything to do with it. Delta likes to run a lean and hot operation, and to do that they need all hands on deck during the summer. I think they just didn’t want to keep training running after those couple months. It wasn’t like 2023 where they had no choice but to hire all year round because they needed to hire so much. Any effect on endeavor was likely just coincidental. It doesn’t cost them much to flow captains - and in some cases, could even save them money when more junior captains at lower pay rates replace them.

 

Last week, I flew with a First Officer who had recently completed his training (Endeavor Flow). He mentioned that some Endeavor pilots were going to receive their numbers in October for classes starting in January. This conversation took place in September, so I'm unsure how they could have known they were receiving these numbers in October unless they were officially notified.