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Old 07-22-2025 | 06:23 AM
  #8961  
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Originally Posted by Verdell
Ahh. Ok I can see your point there and its merit. I think we can agree then that SS in their current form lack a proper leveling mechanism. I'm curious what others think, let's brainstorm the last few posts.

1) Keep SS as-is
2) Make SS have a counter like GS do, and award only 1 per PCS cycle
3) Make SS count towards GS counter, and GS count towards SS counter. Share a counter. (1 per PCS cycle?)
4) Get rid of SS altogether

I personally don't like #1 or #4. I think #2 and #3 are much better. And I think that 1 SS per PCS cycle is important.
My vote would be for #4. And I say this having enjoyed some nice Silvers in the past. After playing the reserve game and seeing how PB days affect premium across the entire operation I really see that as the one major difference between our contract and all the other majors' as far as work rules are concerned. IMO it (along with 18-hour call out) is the secret sauce that makes Delta pilots so much money, so anything the company gets which keeps reserves even minimally healthy is detrimental to the whole pilot group. In other words, reserve GS offer a return to the pilot group as a whole (they drive broken trips, RR, 23L4, 23L8, more GS, good WS, good OOBWS, etc), while SS offer a return to a single pilot, and ultimately work to benefit the company by letting a full bid-pack trip go out to one pilot.

My second vote would be for #3. Just make it a long-range GS, and count it as such.
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Old 07-22-2025 | 06:50 AM
  #8962  
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Originally Posted by Verdell
Ahh. Ok I can see your point there and its merit. I think we can agree then that SS in their current form lack a proper leveling mechanism. I'm curious what others think, let's brainstorm the last few posts.

1) Keep SS as-is
2) Make SS have a counter like GS do, and award only 1 per PCS cycle
3) Make SS count towards GS counter, and GS count towards SS counter. Share a counter. (1 per PCS cycle?)
4) Get rid of SS altogether

I personally don't like #1 or #4. I think #2 and #3 are much better. And I think that 1 SS per PCS cycle is important.
Get rid of them because they lock RES pilots out of premium trips and eliminate PBs. Line holders can get long notice GS and the results are the same if you eliminate the trigger or allow more banked time to get to a much lower trigger.
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Old 07-22-2025 | 06:54 AM
  #8963  
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Originally Posted by ohaiyo
My vote would be for #4. And I say this having enjoyed some nice Silvers in the past. After playing the reserve game and seeing how PB days affect premium across the entire operation I really see that as the one major difference between our contract and all the other majors' as far as work rules are concerned. IMO it (along with 18-hour call out) is the secret sauce that makes Delta pilots so much money, so anything the company gets which keeps reserves even minimally healthy is detrimental to the whole pilot group. In other words, reserve GS offer a return to the pilot group as a whole (they drive broken trips, RR, 23L4, 23L8, more GS, good WS, good OOBWS, etc), while SS offer a return to a single pilot, and ultimately work to benefit the company by letting a full bid-pack trip go out to one pilot.

My second vote would be for #3. Just make it a long-range GS, and count it as such.
I agree, as someone who primarily bids RES, PB is far more valuable to me than the extra pay. I have a feeling that SS are here to stay, but I do feel it should be fair to everyone, not just the most senior guy/gal who gets all of them. I don't have a problem with SS mocking GS counters. I.E. SS1/SS2/SS3 etc.. However, RES should be allowed to partake in the fun on off days if they choose. I understand the company won't want to give out PB days for SS, but could offer double pay.

I also feel RES should be allowed to pick up on off days up to the ALV limit (+15). Now, before you all say "that takes away from premium,". How is that different from the folks who drop to 0 and rebuild their line with broken pairings or pick up WS to the limit?
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Old 07-22-2025 | 06:59 AM
  #8964  
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Originally Posted by Gunfighter
The junior pilot that "got screwed on reserve" wouldn't even be on the seniority list without mil leave. Staying at home wasn't the option, staying at a regional was. The senior pilot only got "screwed" if they submitted the APD at the same time as the mil leave. It's only a one PCS run window of opportunity. What about the one extra (optional for pilot) GS that went out because Delta already used up all the reserves? On a micro level you can find individual examples where the APD was missed by one PCS cycle, on a macro level it's a huge boost for pay and staffing.
How does this translate to a "Junior" Pilot? There are a lot of us who bid RES for a reason. Unless you are a commuter, to be honest, I am not sure why anyone would bid a line. There is a stigma associated with RES, equating it to being a "Junior Pilot." Take a look at the RES list and scroll down a few pages; you may be surprised at how "Junior" the top half of the RES list is. I hope that on the next contract, we can focus more on QOL and not just the dollar amount. Talk to some of the spirit guys and gals and see whose QOL was better.
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Old 07-22-2025 | 07:06 AM
  #8965  
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Originally Posted by ShegotheD
However, RES should be allowed to partake in the fun on off days if they choose. I understand the company won't want to give out PB days for SS, but could offer double pay.
this would kill PB's even more so than now. no thanks.
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Old 07-22-2025 | 07:06 AM
  #8966  
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Originally Posted by ShegotheD
I agree, as someone who primarily bids RES, PB is far more valuable to me than the extra pay. I have a feeling that SS are here to stay, but I do feel it should be fair to everyone, not just the most senior guy/gal who gets all of them. I don't have a problem with SS mocking GS counters. I.E. SS1/SS2/SS3 etc.. However, RES should be allowed to partake in the fun on off days if they choose. I understand the company won't want to give out PB days for SS, but could offer double pay.

I also feel RES should be allowed to pick up on off days up to the ALV limit (+15). Now, before you all say "that takes away from premium,". How is that different from the folks who drop to 0 and rebuild their line with broken pairings or pick up WS to the limit?
You can YS on off days. There will always be plenty of GS for reserve pilots. I believe ALPA said something like 80% of all GS go out within 18 hours of scheduling needing to cover a trip. As of now, reserves have a substantial advantage with GS over line holders.
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Old 07-22-2025 | 07:16 AM
  #8967  
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
You can YS on off days. There will always be plenty of GS for reserve pilots. I believe ALPA said something like 80% of all GS go out within 18 hours of scheduling needing to cover a trip. As of now, reserves have a substantial advantage with GS over line holders.
I agree that the amount of GS open to RES is significantly higher than that of line holders. However, that metric is kinda squed. There are not many reasons why someone would want to GS over an LCR day. Not many would waste the time to get paid just block.
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Old 07-22-2025 | 07:17 AM
  #8968  
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Originally Posted by Gspeed
this would kill PB's even more so than now. no thanks.
So, line holders taking the SS doesn't take away PB days, but RES taking SS does?
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Old 07-22-2025 | 07:25 AM
  #8969  
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Originally Posted by ShegotheD
I agree that the amount of GS open to RES is significantly higher than that of line holders. However, that metric is kinda squed. There are not many reasons why someone would want to GS over an LCR day. Not many would waste the time to get paid just block.
It's not just higher. It's also effectively reserve with conflict. A lineholder MUST fly a minimum of 67-72 hours of credit before they can make double pay. That's at least 13 days of work. A reserve has no trigger and, in rolling thunder instances, can work 13 days and make 140 hours.
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Old 07-22-2025 | 07:29 AM
  #8970  
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
It's not just higher. It's also effectively reserve with conflict. A lineholder MUST fly a minimum of 67-72 hours of credit before they can make double pay. That's at least 13 days of work. A reserve has no trigger and, in rolling thunder instances, can work 13 days and make 140 hours.
if it’s so easy and that much better, just bid reserve
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