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Old 07-20-2025 | 07:34 AM
  #8861  
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Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad
Nothing. If they actually do MIL work absolutely nothing at all.

It’s the ones who don’t. And I know of at least 2 that don’t.
If you know about it, why don't you report them?
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Old 07-20-2025 | 07:42 AM
  #8862  
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Originally Posted by Frank Grimes
Why fly a WS when you could wait and fly a GS?

Bird in the hand with a SS vs maybe getting a GS, ability pick up multiple SSs, do a SS and then still be able to do GS #1. Lots of reasons.
this is the most accurate reason. The cat was let out of the bag when we agreed to SS’s. Nothing can likely be done about it at this point.
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Old 07-20-2025 | 07:53 AM
  #8863  
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Originally Posted by Frank Grimes
If you know about it, why don't you report them?
As someone who adjusts my schedule with mil leave and actually does military duty on those days, I’m afraid of the “one person poops their pants and now we all have to wear diapers” consequence. Who knows what second order effects and FOM policy changes could come about.
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Old 07-20-2025 | 08:00 AM
  #8864  
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Originally Posted by Viper25
As someone who adjusts my schedule with mil leave and actually does military duty on those days, I’m afraid of the “one person poops their pants and now we all have to wear diapers” consequence. Who knows what second order effects and FOM policy changes could come about.
That's why they need to be dealt with. They are breaking the USERRA law, it's not just the FOM. If the government and Delta are going to give us this benefit, we have to uphold our end of the bargain.

Lawsuit still going on for about 8 years now about guys getting fired from Delta for abusing mil leave.
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Old 07-20-2025 | 08:32 AM
  #8865  
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Originally Posted by Frank Grimes
Why fly a WS when you could wait and fly a GS?

Bird in the hand with a SS vs maybe getting a GS, ability pick up multiple SSs, do a SS and then still be able to do GS #1. Lots of reasons.
Also, if you are below the trigger, maybe even substantially, SS are double pay AND credit. It might be the only way you can even fly at a premium opening you up to even more premium.

I do think there should be a leveling mechanism, however
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Old 07-20-2025 | 09:10 AM
  #8866  
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Originally Posted by 3 green
Why fly horrible SS trips when you could wait until they have to break those trips up in multiple trips for greenslips? When they break them up, the trips have tons of credit and lots are 2 leg 2 days. Pilots are their own worst enemies when it comes to making easy money.
Because they send the trip OOB to be covered as Y rotation using some other bases RES, then the in base pilot gets zero GS.

Ask me how I know....seen it too many times.
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Old 07-20-2025 | 09:15 AM
  #8867  
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Originally Posted by Frank Grimes
That's why they need to be dealt with. They are breaking the USERRA law, it's not just the FOM. If the government and Delta are going to give us this benefit, we have to uphold our end of the bargain.

Lawsuit still going on for about 8 years now about guys getting fired from Delta for abusing mil leave.
What exactly is "abusing mil leave."

Taking mil leave over Christmas? If it's documented per USERRA*, that isn't abuse. 12 days of orders spanning a 3-day weekend? If it's documented per USERRA, that isn't abuse. On MEDCON orders not performing duty? If it's documented per USERRA, that isn't abuse. Doing four hours of CBTs and writing OPRs on Thanksgiving morning with a telecommute memo on file? If it's documented per USERRA, that isn't abuse.

The company has the right to call the commander and discuss alternatives (past and present duty). I've taken these calls from chief pilots.

Either the SM is performing military duty, to include non-work days while on orders, or they are not. That's it. Convenient or inconvenient to the civilian employer.

I would argue that a commander who fosters an "anything goes" culture of certifying orders without verifying duty is the real "abuser." They're setting up both their organization and their people for monumental failure.

In my mind, "abusing mil leave" is synonymous with committing a crime (getting paid for not performing duty). "Abusing mil leave" is a powerful accusation.

*Documentation includes a commander letter.
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Old 07-20-2025 | 09:19 AM
  #8868  
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Originally Posted by Speed Select
What exactly is "abusing mil leave."

Taking mil leave over Christmas? If it's documented per USERRA*, that isn't abuse. 12 days of orders spanning a 3-day weekend? If it's documented per USERRA, that isn't abuse. On MEDCON orders not performing duty? If it's documented per USERRA, that isn't abuse. Doing four hours of CBTs and writing OPRs on Thanksgiving morning with a telecommute memo on file? If it's documented per USERRA, that isn't abuse.

The company has the right to call the commander and discuss alternatives (past and present duty). I've taken these calls from chief pilots.

Either the SM is performing military duty, to include non-work days while on orders, or they are not. That's it. Convenient or inconvenient to the civilian employer.

I would argue that a commander who fosters an "anything goes" culture of certifying orders without verifying duty is the real "abuser." They're setting up both their organization and their people for monumental failure.

In my mind, "abusing mil leave" is synonymous with committing a crime (getting paid for not performing duty). "Abusing mil leave" is a powerful accusation.

*Documentation includes a commander letter.
Abusing mil leave is what he wrote, taking mil leave and not performing military duties.
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Old 07-20-2025 | 09:28 AM
  #8869  
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Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF
Because they send the trip OOB to be covered as Y rotation using some other bases RES, then the in base pilot gets zero GS.

Ask me how I know....seen it too many times.
As they have been permitted by the TC ladders for a long time. Being for or against OOBRES coverage is similar in nature to the OOBWS brouhaha.

When you see a trip NOOP to get covered by OOBRES, it better be the whole dang thing plus DHs as needed. If it’s not the full rotation, it’s a PWA violation.

If they don’t find anyone, the original rotation should be REOP to accomplish the next step.
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Old 07-20-2025 | 09:29 AM
  #8870  
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Originally Posted by 3 green
Why fly horrible SS trips when you could wait until they have to break those trips up in multiple trips for greenslips? When they break them up, the trips have tons of credit and lots are 2 leg 2 days. Pilots are their own worst enemies when it comes to making easy money.
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
Yeah..who wants to fly a bid packet trip?! (apparently lots of people by the looks of the daily trip coverage). I don't get it.

It's not really that crazy why people do it. Especially in the summer, I spend most of the time well below the trigger so a GS doesn't help me. I hate bid packet trips and rarely ever fly them, as 0xxx 1 and 2 days are way better. However, I'll gladly take a SS, plug my nose and fly a bid packet trips because a 4 day SS means I can work 4 fewer days in the month.
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