Nonstop Negotiations

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11-08-2022 | 02:07 PM

#111

Falcon20

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Apr 2007

Posts: 963

Likes: 0

From: Up front

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcal

Every single line holder is flying a full schedule of crappy trips and yet we still see endless GS pickups. You think reserves will be different? I don’t.

a line holder gets to 72 hours in fewer days than a reserve person would. As such more opportunities to get to the trigger on fewer work days.

If it paid 2x regardless of going over on call days I might consider it. Otherwise I would probably say no thanks.

11-08-2022 | 02:16 PM

#112

ancman

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jul 2022

Posts: 2,286

Likes: 1,179

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailhookah

For those who don’t ever bid reserve or go for payback days and don’t care about payback days being taken away be advised: payback days provide the entire seniority list benefits, even if you’ve never earned a PB day. The big benefit that gives the most value to the seniority list is by making it equitable for senior bidders to bid reserve, making it possible for junior pilots to hold lines or commuters to hold lines much quicker in category. Payback days help the whole entire seniority list if you ever realized it or not. Don’t let these go away!!!!!!

This can’t be emphasized enough. The loss of PB days would affect every single pilot on the seniority list, not just those who roll thunder.

11-08-2022 | 02:26 PM

#113

hockeypilot44

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Joined: Jul 2008

Posts: 5,583

Likes: 326

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vsop

After thinking about it, this wasn’t completely a trial balloon. If this was the company’s proposal, it was crafted to show the mediator that we aren’t at an impasse when in reality we still are. It’s below the minimum offer that would get approved, but shows enough movement in the right direction.

18 percent is what it takes to get us to Endeavor rates.

11-08-2022 | 02:38 PM

#114

brakechatter

Line Holder

Joined: Aug 2009

Posts: 435

Likes: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotBases

Why are we posting our asks? Leave it to the NC.

Agree, the NC will communicate when they have a chance. Rumors can take on a life of their own, and often do.

11-08-2022 | 02:58 PM

#115

DRaab

On Reserve

Joined: Jan 2019

Posts: 85

Likes: 2

From: 350B

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcal

Every single line holder is flying a full schedule of crappy trips and yet we still see endless GS pickups. You think reserves will be different? I don’t.

yes. Otherwise they would just bid for a line.

11-08-2022 | 03:00 PM

#116

brakechatter

Line Holder

Joined: Aug 2009

Posts: 435

Likes: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Dollar wise that’s about 25 to 30% of what we opened for in 2019. It would mean we have made a massive shift in our negotiating position in favor of management. I was looking for 1 billion in improvements in 2019. 3 years past and starting the first year of what should be a new contract I am looking for somewhere around 1.5 billion minimum a year at signing. The proposal you have listed is no where near that.

You seem to have this agenda to prove how egregious the opener was in relation to what is going to happen. You also have the hangup with the lack of "on time, on target" - three years late. I'll offer another perspective for the others: C2K came in a couple of months prior to 9/11, which nobody could have predicted. So by fortune of circumstances, we enjoyed a half of a year of wonderful raises and bunch of concessions, which offset those raises a considerable amount. Enter 9/11 and the evisceration of the contract - twice. Even C2015 had an abysmal failure followed by a success**, depending on how damaging you find the concessions attached to it. The C2019 MEC had a different idea in mind, enough concessions and years of massive profits called for a paradigm shift in how business is conducted, with the MEC controlling the agenda and regaining some of the quality of life losses which were given away not only after 9/11, but in contracts which shouldn't have contained concessions.

Enter C2019 and an aggressive opener. The Company was going through a, um, leadership change and dragged their feet. Then came an event which caused global upheaval on a scale multiple times worse than 9/11. Frankly, but for government support, all airlines would have been out of business. Yet no concessions were taken (and in fact) gains were made, junior pilots were spared, somewhat through government intervention - but most certainly from lessons learned during the 9/11 drama.

The length of this negotiation is not a surprise, the ask is large, in monetary and non-monetary gains. It was bound to take time, and reflects the change in mentality of the MEC - right or wrong. I think right, but that's my opinion. there are another almost 15,000 of them out there.

11-08-2022 | 03:24 PM

#117

DeltaboundRedux

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Nov 2020

Posts: 2,941

Likes: 213

From: Enoch Powell Enthusiast

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotBases

Why are we posting our asks? Leave it to the NC.

The poasting must flow….

11-08-2022 | 04:06 PM

#118

DisMyGamerTag

Line Holder

Joined: Nov 2022

Posts: 203

Likes: 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abouttime2fish

Any truth to this? I’m not on chit chat.

On chit chat:

Contract AIP Details and Direction in the works

Pay: 18% 5% 5% 5%

Retro: 6% per year from 2019 so 3 years, Still trying to figure out if called a bonus or Retro Pay. Not much support for payments to retired pilots but still up in the air.

Retirement: No changes other then some 401K excess funding of a MPP Plan still in the works but very little funding from Co. going into plan.

Deadhead: Best seat advl: Meaning Isle or window Intl: remains unchanged.

Perdeim: .25 increase Dom .45 Intl

Green Slip and Overtime: 1.5 for hours over monthly average WS of designated trips. GS RES paid as Line holder no day off returned. Still being worked out.

Holiday Pay: Parity with Flt Attendants 1.5 for trips over designated holidays.

SCOPE: I will put it this way, There is a reason you haven't seen it yet and it's not that they are working on the New Finial Language. Basically barely protects the Intl. flying we have now. And it clears out the Grievances for the KAL Violations of the past and present with a minimal payment. Need a decent AIP to wash the details of this SCOPE deal out so it's not looked at very hard.

Profit Sharing: No Changes to current, (Thank god, this time around they are not Trading it away for average pay raises like the Moakster's did in the past).

Endeavor Proposal in the works: Trying to Ink out a agreement regarding Hiring through Endeavor or some kind of Hybrid staple program for current pilots. Pilots hired through Delta assigned positions at EDV 3 year freeze similar to propel. Being discussed due to turnover at EDV costing a ton in training and affecting our operation. Different ideals being kicked around but with losses of 120 Captains a month there is a strong desire to stem that loss. FWIW

I’ll vote no on the MPP and Endeavor stuff alone.

I vote F no for GS on reserve change.

Last edited by DisMyGamerTag; 11-08-2022 at 04:25 PM.

11-08-2022 | 04:14 PM

#119

DisMyGamerTag

Line Holder

Joined: Nov 2022

Posts: 203

Likes: 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by igotgummed

It amazes me that guys are so ready to put their hats back on instead of being unified with other pilots till the end. I know that when I see a Capt wearing a hat I, and most of us, pretty much assume he’s an a-hole that sides with mgmt and not me.

I think some wear the hat to give the MEC the middle finger. Or they don’t wear the lanyard for that reason.