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18/5/5/5

Old 11-17-2022, 04:12 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
NO.

Our pay should be tied to inflation and should continue to go up even when negotiations stall so as to disincentive the current company behavior. I would propose our pay raises be inflation + 1%, rounded up, never to be less than 4%. Using this math we get the following raises -- these raises are retroactive and all pilots who were on the payroll at the time must be fairly paid:

01 Jan 2020: 4% -- a cumulative 4% raise
01 Jan 2021: 4% -- a cumulative 8.16% raise
01 Jan 2022: 8% -- a cumulative 16.8% raise
01 Jan 2023: 9% -- a cumulative 27.3% raise

Realize this, just to keep up with inflation since our last contract was signed requires a 20% DOS raise. Also realize the government plays BS games and inflation doesn't capture food and energy costs which FAR exceed the rate of inflation. Look at how much the cost of a ticket on Delta has gone up -- 43% if my memory serves properly. 18/5/5/5 is a kick in the face and should be an auto no-vote for anyone with an ounce of self-respect and half a brain. We've all seen it, $15 for a burger and fries at the airport, $150 to fill your diesel truck, insane increases in property costs. Every day the company delays makes my yes-vote that much more expensive.
I wish it was only $150 to fill my truck. 48 gallon tank,so 40 gallon normal fill. At current diesel prices it's more than that.
Following historical price is from EIA.gov
1/7/2019 $3.01a gallon (and was as low as $2.20 in summer/fall, but winter drives diesel prices up seasonally)
Today, BP three doors down from me, which is usually the cheapest or within 2-3 cents.
$5.78 a gallon.
Based on a 40 gallon fill up, that's $231.20 to fill. Was $120.4 at 3ish a gallon.

Thats damn near 100% increase.

Food, is also well above inflation.

The official inflation numbers don't include food or energy, but for joe average, they are the largest variable part of their budget. My property tax just got a significant uptick this year, over 10% and the city said that fuel for city vehicles (Fire, Police, DPW, School Buses) was the single biggest driver in it.
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Old 11-17-2022, 04:57 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
QOL items are money and jobs in the end. We will never get that back. If they improve first year pay it won’t be retro. If they bring the 330 up to the 350 it won’t be retro. If they improve reroute pay it won’t be retro. If they add Holiday pay it won’t be retro. If international pay increases it won’t be retro. If the value of vacation increases it won’t be retro.
So you are saying all those thing could have and should have been achieved by January 2020? Even with your ask that deal wouldn't have been ratifiable before the pandemic.
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Old 11-17-2022, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CX500T View Post
I wish it was only $150 to fill my truck. 48 gallon tank,so 40 gallon normal fill. At current diesel prices it's more than that.
Following historical price is from EIA.gov
1/7/2019 $3.01a gallon (and was as low as $2.20 in summer/fall, but winter drives diesel prices up seasonally)
Today, BP three doors down from me, which is usually the cheapest or within 2-3 cents.
$5.78 a gallon.
Based on a 40 gallon fill up, that's $231.20 to fill. Was $120.4 at 3ish a gallon.

Thats damn near 100% increase.

Food, is also well above inflation.

The official inflation numbers don't include food or energy, but for joe average, they are the largest variable part of their budget. My property tax just got a significant uptick this year, over 10% and the city said that fuel for city vehicles (Fire, Police, DPW, School Buses) was the single biggest driver in it.
Headline inflation includes fuel and energy.
Core inflation excludes these 2 items.
The BLS reports both figures every month. These are the two figures that economists and wall st watch.

https://www.hiltoncapitalmanagement....nt?hs_amp=true
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Old 11-17-2022, 05:23 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Planetrain View Post
Headline inflation includes fuel and energy.
Core inflation excludes these 2 items.
The BLS reports both figures every month. These are the two figures that economists and wall st watch.

https://www.hiltoncapitalmanagement....nt?hs_amp=true
Well guess which one companies and politicians are going to use to make themselves look better, or our ask unreasonable.

And which one affect the money in my account at the end of the month from the expense side.

I make what I make (RES Guarantee) barring a new way of paying, that's not going to change dramatically. And I'm sure the company will try to peg it to Core, IF they admit it needs to even match inflation.

What I pay out each month is more affected by Headline CPI and not CORE CPI.

Food - Can't avoid eating. And this has gone up at least 30% since 2019. Closer to 50% if you avoid ZOG foods.
Energy - I can cut back on vacation, but there is a baseline of "non optional energy use" such as heating my house, driving to work, driving to doctors office, grocer, etc.
Apparel. - Honestly, I don't spend much here. I have jeans old enough to vote. And concert shirts that will probably start getting AARP mailers soon.
New and used vehicles.- HOLY CRAP YES. We went to replace my wife's 4Runner with a new 4Runner.. Same options, trim "just this but new". Car was $36k in 2012.. Adjusted for official inflation, $48k for the new one. NOPE, try $65k
Commodities (medical care commodities and others not food- or energy-related). meh, dont' see it, but I know it's baked in.
Alcohol and tobacco products. Don't really consume enough beer (I make my own) to have it move the budget needle, but grain/hops cost 1.5-2x what they did 3 years ago.
Other Services.
Shelter. Housing is probably the closest to "FIXED" but I have had the escrow part of my mortgage more than double since 2015.
Medical care services (hospital and physicians’ services). DPMP isn't cheap.
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Old 11-17-2022, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip7 View Post
18/5/5/5 will pass with increased vacation, full retro, a few other nuggets here and there and no concessions IMO
Did they send you out today and ask you to throw some bait out there and see if we get any bites?? Lol.
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Old 11-17-2022, 06:01 AM
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What do the speculated numbers mean?

18/5/5/5 for example.

I assume the 5/5/5 part is a 5% for 2020…21 and 22. So is that compounded? If not, then it’s just 5% on all money made from 20 to 22, right?

18…total raise in 23? Compounded?
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Old 11-17-2022, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip7 View Post
18/5/5/5 will pass with increased vacation, full retro, a few other nuggets here and there and no concessions IMO
If you mean 25/8/8/8 then yes it probably would.
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Old 11-17-2022, 07:30 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Trip7 View Post
18/5/5/5 will pass with increased vacation, full retro, a few other nuggets here and there and no concessions IMO
He is right, you know.
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Old 11-17-2022, 07:49 AM
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So 18 DOS then 5% Jan 1 of 2023? So if we don’t sign until 2023 then 18+5 just turns into 23% DOS?
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Old 11-17-2022, 07:49 AM
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Our union asked us not to partake in trial balloons and hamstring the NC, yet here we are.
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