Whats Flight Family? Pilots aren't required to use Flight Family. Is that the app we will use to bid vacation in the new AIP?

 

DALFA, I keep referencing the Q & A that you so kindly posted, yet you say I'm in a fantasyland. I explain that it is NOT my opinion, but based on many conversations with the FA's I fly with. . .I guess they aren't living in reality either. And now you are trying to explain that in a equation that is based on hourly rates & legs flown that if a domestic FA who flys 82 hours and picks up an additional trip won't make at the very least an additional 16% in boarding pay while an 88 hour New Hire makes 13%? You see DALFA, I'm NOT basing this on just your paycheck (as your evidently are), but on the stats that our company has published AND the many FA's that I fly with! While you have digressed into calling me clueless and living in a fantasyland, I continue to present facts and feedback from my fellow crew, THAT is the reality.

Now, unless you have something factual to contribute that represents more than just your personal opinion supported by your own paycheck, how about you keep this professional and quit trying to disprove that the FA's received a 25.5% pay increase since the pilots contract expired over 3 years ago. After all, this is a Pilot's forum and here you are trying to what? Lower our expectations for the current negotiations? Create animosity between crew members? Argue for arguments sake?

I have wasted enough time with this discourse, and I'm sure you will continue to repeating yourself without listening to either the published facts from our company or the feedback I have received from your fellow FA's. The current contract negotiations is OUR battle and we could certainly use your support rather than your divisiveness! Remember, many of the benefits you enjoy are a result of the hard fought negotiations from your fellow pilots that were also given to the Flight Attendants.

 

Where did you present 1 shred of evidence?

The Q&A I posted listed 5 made-up examples by the company. Not any kind of average.

This is the same company that sent out Q&A giving examples of how those cuts to Profit Sharing a few years back would actually be a good thing.

That's why some of the examples are as low as 4% and 16% is the highest. You're basing your opinion on "many conversations with the FA's I fly with". Seriously? That's what you're going with? I'm basing it off of my actual paycheck that I calculate every 2 weeks and on the composition of our trips. We don't fly 5 legs per day and the number of rotations with 4 legs per day is a very small percentage. Our average is about 2.0-2.1 legs per duty systemwide (based on ACTUAL trip demographic data on dlnet). So boarding pay has a substantially SMALLER impact on earnings than what you're saying. This isn't my opinon. This is basic MATH. Picking up an extra trip is irrelevant to the impact it has on the overall percentage that boarding pay is relative to regular flight pay. The fact that I even have to have this discussion with you is ridiculous. This has been debated ad nauseum even on this board and most people understand that 16% is a gross overestimation.

Average FA that works 80 hours per month -

960 hours per year

Of that 960 hours up to 126 hours are vacation time and an additional 56 hours of personal time.

If you take an average 3 day trip worth 16 hours it takes 5 trips to equal 80 hours in a month. That's 15 duty periods. With an average of 2.1 legs per duty period, that's on average 31.5 legs per month worth 10.5 hours of additional pay. Since only 81% of that 960 annual hours are eligible for boarding pay (again...vacation and personal time aren't) then boarding pay comes out to 102 hours per year in actual boarding pay...which comes out to 10.6% in actual additional wages. Now, this is based on someone that flies strictly domestic. Nearly 30% of ALL block hours are international block hours and on those flights boarding pay has an even smaller impact...more like 3-4%.

You see, all the numbers I just spit out are REAL numbers. Based on REAL trip demographic data. Not based on fantasyland wishful thinking or what my cousin who is a FA told me.

You can choose to keep repeating the 16% lie (taken out of thin air from nothing) if it makes you sleep better at night but I think most can see that it simply isn't the case.

 

DALFA. This is the 10th time we have had people going back and forth with what FAs make/get.

I don’t care what FAs make personally, I hope you all do well. I am not sure why this topic comes up, why you appear out of thin air, and then there’s 40 subsequent posts about FA life, pay, etc.

If we get a good raise, I am sure you all will too. Because here at Delta ALPA negotiates for every labor group except dispatchers. Reading the same crap about FA pay in 10 different threads with the usual cast of characters is old.

 

I usually only interject when someone brings up our work group and says something that is incorrect. This is your contract negotiations, I wish that you guys get everything you deserve and then some, I mostly just read what people post on these threads. That's why it may seem like I "pop up" out of thin air...it's because I mostly read these threads and not comment.

 

I mean this in the best possible way but….

This is the “Vacation AIP” thread, not the “Despite getting a raise after you guys it’s really not a raise because our raises are synchronized because that’s how it’s spelled out in our non-existent contract” thread.

It would be one thing if this was the first time but this is like the 9000th thread derailment over the same issue. If you really want us to get more coin and benefits as you claim, stop detailing every thread with semantics saying we’re not owed as much as we think we are.

Everyone knows your opinion on this issue by now and if there are any more questions you can refer them to the other 8999 threads where this is discussed.

 

You are arguing this to the wrong people. Obviously we are going to use whatever the company proclomation is to improve our position, whether it's accurate or just propaganda doesn't matter. If they sell the idea they gave a raise of x, we will ask for a raise of x at minimum. Pilots don't control FA rates, and the only use of the information for us is setting a floor for rate increases. No one here is blocking FAs from getting a larger raise, it would be helpful if you did actually since that only moves the floor higher.

 

We have a participant on this forum who knows exactly how much the opener was valued at. Maybe without giving specifics, he can at least verify if that number is in the ball park or not.

 

The list I saw back in 2019 did not include profit sharing and we’re based on first year costs. With 2 years of raises the increase in value could have approached 4 billion.

 

So, back to the Vacation AIP. The NC update said this:

In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much.

I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale.