Vacation AIP
11-15-2022, 05:02 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 392
Originally Posted by PilotWombat
So, back to the Vacation AIP. The NC update said this:
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much.
I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale.
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much.
I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale.
The vacation AIP also said this, "Additionally, the rate at which Delta pilots accrue additional weeks of vacation accelerates...." and this, ".....and the distribution of vacation weeks throughout the year will improve - with particular emphasis on increased vacation weeks being made available for bid in summer months
When those on the junior side of the scale achieve additional longevity, they will also benefit from your quoted portion of the NN.
11-15-2022, 05:07 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Maddog FO
Posts: 651
Originally Posted by PilotWombat
So, back to the Vacation AIP. The NC update said this:
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much.
I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale.
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much.
I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale.
11-15-2022, 05:11 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,431
Originally Posted by Roper92
Frontier gets 5 hours a day FWIW. I’m not sure how accrual works over there, but I noticed they weren’t listed in that negotiations update.
year 1-9, 2 weeks
year 10-19, 3 weeks
year 20+, 4 weeks
11-15-2022, 05:27 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
Posts: 1,508
Originally Posted by Gundam
You are arguing this to the wrong people. Obviously we are going to use whatever the company proclomation is to improve our position, whether it's accurate or just propaganda doesn't matter. If they sell the idea they gave a raise of x, we will ask for a raise of x at minimum. Pilots don't control FA rates, and the only use of the information for us is setting a floor for rate increases. No one here is blocking FAs from getting a larger raise, it would be helpful if you did actually since that only moves the floor higher.
11-15-2022, 05:37 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 560
Originally Posted by DALFA
Understood. My point is that the company hasn't said that's what it is. They used multiple examples and one of them was 16% just like one of them was 4%. Is 16% possible? If you purposely fly the worst domestic trips in our bid packet yes. But this would be an exception, not the norm.
11-15-2022, 05:55 AM
#87
Rerouted On Weekends
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 717A
Posts: 2,937
With IVDs, there is no reason you can’t carve out a sizeable summer vacation for yourself. I have been using my garbage vacation weeks and plopping them during the summer. Has worked great. They won’t get you holidays but my family summer vacations have not suffered. I hope IVDs stay codified or maybe even improved upon. They are great flexibility.
That said, I’m glad they are addressing the barren wasteland that is the summer vacation week availability.
That said, I’m glad they are addressing the barren wasteland that is the summer vacation week availability.
11-15-2022, 05:59 AM
#88
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,281
Originally Posted by PilotWombat
So, back to the Vacation AIP. The NC update said this:
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much.
I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale.
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much.
I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale.
I would think the company would rather pay us more than give us more days off, but who knows…
11-15-2022, 06:00 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 838
Originally Posted by DALFA
Understood. My point is that the company hasn't said that's what it is. They used multiple examples and one of them was 16% just like one of them was 4%. Is 16% possible? If you purposely fly the worst domestic trips in our bid packet yes. But this would be an exception, not the norm.
11-15-2022, 06:03 AM
#90
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,281
One other thing that struck me from the NN:
“made significant progress on numerous secondary items in Section 3 – Compensation”
Could “boarding pay” be included? “Establish Door Pay” was in our opener... That would be a massive gain, as domestic rotations would effectively add nearly an hour’s pay to ADG.
“made significant progress on numerous secondary items in Section 3 – Compensation”
Could “boarding pay” be included? “Establish Door Pay” was in our opener... That would be a massive gain, as domestic rotations would effectively add nearly an hour’s pay to ADG.
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