Search

Notices

MOU 25-05

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-16-2026 | 06:33 AM
  #2141  
Viper25's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 293
Default

Originally Posted by crewdawg
I have a similar feeling about all those short notice trips that I've built my strategy on and have effectively executed for the last few years. I stayed senior on a junior fleet to take advantage this type of flying. Now I watch as they get sent IA that I can't ever seem to get.
Same. And I just started to have enough seniority to exercise this strategy (that I’ve been looking forward to) right before this debacle started. Very frustrating.
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 06:33 AM
  #2142  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 68
Default

Originally Posted by Viper25
Entitlement? It’s seniority.
I’m not saying he is wrong but it is an IA. Look up the definition of an IA. They are suppose to go junior
to him. It has been this way since the #1 pilot at Delta walked on property.
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 06:40 AM
  #2143  
Viper25's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 293
Default

Originally Posted by Nantonaku
I’m not saying he is wrong but it is an IA. Look up the definition of an IA. They are suppose to go junior
to him. It has been this way since the #1 pilot at Delta walked on property.
No it hasn’t. The definition of IA has not matched the application of IA well over a decade.

The definition of IA used to align with the application: a gate agent or landline phone call telling you that you were working Christmas. Double pay eased the pain.

The definition of IA hasn’t changed but the application has changed to mean a voluntary call back for FCFS. Been this “new” way for a long time. Hence, pilots of *all* seniorities are getting IAs.

So the fact that the definition says inverse seniority order has been rendered meaningless for a longtime, and we’re now in a Wild Wests, seniorityless premium pay system.
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 06:50 AM
  #2144  
FangsF15's Avatar
Moderator
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,233
Likes: 1,199
Default

Originally Posted by PositiveRate20
Again, how about some intellectual honesty here. To those of you complaining about someone junior getting an IA, you need to take a look around you at the pilots causing this. The more senior pilots are the ones that are farming M7, causing the trip coverage ladder to clog, and causing the company to go to IA. The mid tier pilots are the ones being most harmed. But if you’re upset with the junior pilots getting the IA, your anger or frustration is misplaced. Are the M7 farmers acting within their contractural rights? Sure. Are they acting in good faith? I’d say no.
I respectfully disagree. The pilots are not the root cause. Absolutely no-one should blame pilots for adapting to real-time conditions on the ground. The root cause of this lies 100% on the company, it's mismanagement, and penny-pinching (which is ironic, since it's actually causing them tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions in total).

Again, we did not have this problem when we had batch sizes.

Originally Posted by Viper25
No it hasn’t. The definition of IA has not matched the application of IA well over a decade.

The definition of IA used to align with the application: a gate agent or landline phone call telling you that you were working Christmas. Double pay eased the pain.

The definition of IA hasn’t changed but the application has changed to mean a voluntary call back for FCFS. Been this “new” way for a long time. Hence, pilots of *all* seniorities are getting IAs.

So the fact that the definition says inverse seniority order has been rendered meaningless for a longtime, and we’re now in a Wild Wests, seniorityless premium pay system.
This right here. The process the company is using as a work around is the Inverse Assignment step, but in NO SENSE are any IA's even resembling an assignment. Junior is never supposed to be an advantage. Ever. It is 100% being misused. Heck, the company isn't even honoring the counter, and assigning 7 IA's to one pilot. Riddle me that.
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 07:05 AM
  #2145  
crewdawg's Avatar
Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,438
Likes: 438
Default

Originally Posted by Nantonaku
I’m not saying he is wrong but it is an IA. Look up the definition of an IA. They are suppose to go juniorto him. It has been this way since the #1 pilot at Delta walked on property.
Referencing 23.R.1, if they're truly IAs, how are some pilots getting IA#2, while others haven't even gotten a call for IA#1. ...not on golden days and well below ALV.
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 08:01 AM
  #2146  
On Reserve
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 106
Likes: 52
Default

Originally Posted by crewdawg
Referencing 23.R.1, if they're truly IAs, how are some pilots getting IA#2, while others haven't even gotten a call for IA#1. ...not on golden days and well below ALV.
No kidding. IMO we should have a grievance in for this, and make the co go back and properly pay everyone for the IA’s they should have been rewarded due to their ignoring of 23.R.1.a.

Not an IA? Well, that’s how they are coding it. I want my cheese!
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 08:14 AM
  #2147  
Gunfighter's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
1M Airline Miles
On Reserve
Gets Weekends Off
50 Countries Visited
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,543
Likes: 510
Default

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
Easy to tell everyone else to hold the line. I am personally losing at least 21 hours per month in earnings. Those 21 hours used to required half a day’s work. Watching my trips go to pilots almost two decades junior to me is infuriating.

That being said I am not engaging in dealmaking, am not struggling financially, and can afford to live without premium pay. It still doesn’t make it right. Losing $50-100k in earnings isn’t chump change.
With "almost two decades" you have the seniority to fix it. Bid where the premium pay is flowing at your seniority. Did your AE reflect an attempt at chasing premium pay? Mid seniority NBA is a choice. You could have been a junior WBA getting the IA call, a senior NBB M7 farmer or a WBB banking PB days.

Just a thought, but a WBA would never be shamed for skipping the walk around. You may even have a second A in the cockpit to assist with Captainly preflight duties.

It's great that you have pointed out the flaws in the system. You have an excellent understanding of the problem and the character to refuse deal making. Use your seniority to change what you can rather than accepting a failed situation you can't control.
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 08:42 AM
  #2148  
Line Holder
10 Years
 
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 177
Default

Originally Posted by Gunfighter
With "almost two decades" you have the seniority to fix it. Bid where the premium pay is flowing at your seniority. Did your AE reflect an attempt at chasing premium pay? Mid seniority NBA is a choice. You could have been a junior WBA getting the IA call, a senior NBB M7 farmer or a WBB banking PB days.

Just a thought, but a WBA would never be shamed for skipping the walk around. You may even have a second A in the cockpit to assist with Captainly preflight duties.

It's great that you have pointed out the flaws in the system. You have an excellent understanding of the problem and the character to refuse deal making. Use your seniority to change what you can rather than accepting a failed situation you can't control.
Tell him to change everything for a 2-year seat lock on a problem that only really started 3/4 months ago? As soon as he’s trained and locked, new contract or MOU changes everything. Shouldn’t we be skating to where the puck is going, not where it’s at? Gretzky or something.
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 09:00 AM
  #2149  
Can’t find crew pickup
 
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,042
Likes: 195
Default

Originally Posted by Planetrain
Tell him to change everything for a 2-year seat lock on a problem that only really started 3/4 months ago? As soon as he’s trained and locked, new contract or MOU changes everything. Shouldn’t we be skating to where the puck is going, not where it’s at? Gretzky or something.
Exactly. No one should buy a seat lock chasing something that’s a recent phenomenon and will hopefully get fixed(-ish) in sec 6. That’s a really short sighted take.
Reply
Old 01-16-2026 | 09:23 AM
  #2150  
Gunfighter's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
1M Airline Miles
On Reserve
Gets Weekends Off
50 Countries Visited
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,543
Likes: 510
Default

Originally Posted by Planetrain
Tell him to change everything for a 2-year seat lock on a problem that only really started 3/4 months ago? As soon as he’s trained and locked, new contract or MOU changes everything. Shouldn’t we be skating to where the puck is going, not where it’s at? Gretzky or something.
That logic holds true for M7 farming. Plug WBA would be a step up financially from mid NBA without any premium pay. Staying NBA hoping premium pay returns is also a gamble. Banking PB days as WBB has been a thing since before C2019. WBA pay isn't a moving puck and WBB PB days are a s l o w moving puck. He's already gambled on premium pay and lost. WBA isn't a gamble it's a huge raise on every minute of pay and doesn't require any premium. WBB banked PB are the most reliable source of premium pay at his seniority. I know because I've done it for 3+ years at his seniority.

Is the new Airbus NBA to WBA short course a two year freeze or just one?

I think the majority of the group is frustrated by the coverage failures, but we're also frustrated by me me me type of complaints. I'm offering three solution to the me me me complaint. Two of them are less risk than hoping coverage improves, one requires the current situation to fester a bit longer for it to pay out.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cactiboss
American
355
09-21-2015 05:20 PM
Doctor
American
250
01-29-2014 12:47 PM
R57 relay
American
86
01-06-2013 09:49 AM
TonyWilliams
Cargo
257
09-09-2010 04:31 PM
fr8rcaptain
Cargo
0
05-12-2009 03:20 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices