Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-23-2012 | 08:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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Unbelievable. Cave in on scope AGAIN folks or you'll go the way of Pan Am! Shameful. I cannot believe we have pilots who think you have pilots best interests in mind.
It's like I've always said about you acl, your core positions change depending upon who you've last spoken with. To think that you have verbally slain people like me for selling scope to line my own pocket while keeping you off the DAL list for a decade, and now you're advocating doing far worse. Incredible.
Carl
It's like I've always said about you acl, your core positions change depending upon who you've last spoken with. To think that you have verbally slain people like me for selling scope to line my own pocket while keeping you off the DAL list for a decade, and now you're advocating doing far worse. Incredible.
Carl
We could offer to fly these 76-seaters at industry rates. The company would STILL say no. It's all about control.
05-23-2012 | 08:07 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: A-320A
acl,
One thing my union and my company should consider is that Delta pilots are more than capable of flying 70 or 76 seat Rj's.
Ain't no shame in our game. My first day as a major airline captain, I flew a 75 seat DC-9-10 from DTW to MDW, and I was damn proud.
Someone needs to put the memo out to the higher ups that we want to fly those airplanes. Delta pilots don't discriminate against any lift carrying airplanes, big or small.
One thing my union and my company should consider is that Delta pilots are more than capable of flying 70 or 76 seat Rj's.
Ain't no shame in our game. My first day as a major airline captain, I flew a 75 seat DC-9-10 from DTW to MDW, and I was damn proud.
Someone needs to put the memo out to the higher ups that we want to fly those airplanes. Delta pilots don't discriminate against any lift carrying airplanes, big or small.
05-23-2012 | 08:09 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: 7ERB, no M88, no 7ER, no A320, NEXT!
I fired this off to the NC chairman, not that I really expect a response:
A few questions I would like answered please:
Why the 35% DCI hiring requirement? Why is this in my contract?
Why is there still a gap between the 88/90 pay rate and the 737 pay rate? They have virtually identical seat capacities!
Why are we subsidizing our pay rate increases with a decrease in profit sharing? Especially when the company is projecting huge profits for the next few years!
Why are we using negotiating capital to get rid of an aircraft we know the company does not want?(50 seaters)
I am a junior guy, why am I being asked to subsidize and early retirement package for senior guys who are going to leave anyway? In addition, there is no guarantee they will take the package, but I will have given up money to offer it to them!!!!!!
Why are Southwest captains still making $27 an hour more than our 737 captains?
The company has stated that the 717 will be a replacement jet, so why are we allowing ourselves to be tricked into thinking those jets will mean pilot hiring?
Lastly, I strongly believe that I am worth more than what is being offered in this TA. In addition, I am certain the pilot group, as a whole, was asking for better pay rates than what is in this TA. Why did you ignore the wishes of the pilot group?
A few questions I would like answered please:
Why the 35% DCI hiring requirement? Why is this in my contract?
Why is there still a gap between the 88/90 pay rate and the 737 pay rate? They have virtually identical seat capacities!
Why are we subsidizing our pay rate increases with a decrease in profit sharing? Especially when the company is projecting huge profits for the next few years!
Why are we using negotiating capital to get rid of an aircraft we know the company does not want?(50 seaters)
I am a junior guy, why am I being asked to subsidize and early retirement package for senior guys who are going to leave anyway? In addition, there is no guarantee they will take the package, but I will have given up money to offer it to them!!!!!!
Why are Southwest captains still making $27 an hour more than our 737 captains?
The company has stated that the 717 will be a replacement jet, so why are we allowing ourselves to be tricked into thinking those jets will mean pilot hiring?
Lastly, I strongly believe that I am worth more than what is being offered in this TA. In addition, I am certain the pilot group, as a whole, was asking for better pay rates than what is in this TA. Why did you ignore the wishes of the pilot group?
05-23-2012 | 08:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
I'm looking at it right now, and all I can say is you are wrong.
The company can only presently inquire and ask you about the general nature of illness, and only if it's over 7 days of absence can they require a doctors note. This new language adds the "discussion with chief pilot" and also adds the benchmark of 100 hours of usage where you MUST provide a doctors certificate to the company. It also STRIKES the part where verification is not normally required for absences less than 7 days in duration (that is huge), and ADDS language that allows pretty much ANY absence to be subject to the program.
Now pretty much every pilot I know will be providing a doctors note to the company, under this TA, whereas before none was REQUIRED. This is a huge win for the companys Sick Leave Monitoring Program that ALPA falsely claims was eliminated, and a huge concession for the pilots... heck, it could cost you your very job.
It also adds language where you "may" "VERIFY" your illness to the CPO by providing a doctors certificate to them, otherwise your illness will be considered "UNVERIFIED". In other words, you are not really sick and will be considered an abuser subject to inquiry unless you provide a DOCTORS CERTIFICATE for EVERY ILLNESS. That's what this section creates! Can't anyone see that? The Flight Attendants currently have this!!
In other, other words... The company no longer needs to call you when you are sick, because YOU"LL BE CALLING THEM!!!
And if you think that's brilliant, get this: YOU'LL be paying the doctor unless the CPO specifically asks you for verification. But you'll verify anyway, because that's how this program is set up. It's all on YOU. Every time you get sick you'll be thinking "should I go to the Doctor and get a verification in case I get sick again sometime this year?" And you will!
Last edited by flyallnite; 05-23-2012 at 08:50 PM.
05-23-2012 | 08:14 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
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From: 777B
I fired this off to the NC chairman, not that I really expect a response:
A few questions I would like answered please:
Why the 35% DCI hiring requirement? Why is this in my contract?
Why is there still a gap between the 88/90 pay rate and the 737 pay rate? They have virtually identical seat capacities!
Why are we subsidizing our pay rate increases with a decrease in profit sharing? Especially when the company is projecting huge profits for the next few years!
Why are we using negotiating capital to get rid of an aircraft we know the company does not want?(50 seaters)
I am a junior guy, why am I being asked to subsidize and early retirement package for senior guys who are going to leave anyway? In addition, there is no guarantee they will take the package, but I will have given up money to offer it to them!!!!!!
Why are Southwest captains still making $27 an hour more than our 737 captains?
The company has stated that the 717 will be a replacement jet, so why are we allowing ourselves to be tricked into thinking those jets will mean pilot hiring?
Lastly, I strongly believe that I am worth more than what is being offered in this TA. In addition, I am certain the pilot group, as a whole, was asking for better pay rates than what is in this TA. Why did you ignore the wishes of the pilot group?
A few questions I would like answered please:
Why the 35% DCI hiring requirement? Why is this in my contract?
Why is there still a gap between the 88/90 pay rate and the 737 pay rate? They have virtually identical seat capacities!
Why are we subsidizing our pay rate increases with a decrease in profit sharing? Especially when the company is projecting huge profits for the next few years!
Why are we using negotiating capital to get rid of an aircraft we know the company does not want?(50 seaters)
I am a junior guy, why am I being asked to subsidize and early retirement package for senior guys who are going to leave anyway? In addition, there is no guarantee they will take the package, but I will have given up money to offer it to them!!!!!!
Why are Southwest captains still making $27 an hour more than our 737 captains?
The company has stated that the 717 will be a replacement jet, so why are we allowing ourselves to be tricked into thinking those jets will mean pilot hiring?
Lastly, I strongly believe that I am worth more than what is being offered in this TA. In addition, I am certain the pilot group, as a whole, was asking for better pay rates than what is in this TA. Why did you ignore the wishes of the pilot group?
SD;
I can answer your question:
Because that is what the company told us they wanted.
05-23-2012 | 08:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: 765-A
* Delta management want's more cheap flying 70 seaters.
* We want to fly 70 seaters.
* Somehow there is also a provision in the TA that provides for 35% of new hires to come from DCI carriers.
Why not let the company have the 70 seaters operated under whatever DCI carriers workrules and pay they want for 3 years, then have those pilots and planes come under the Delta banner/certificate for bidding by all Delta pilots afterwards?
Then you would probably have a slam dunk passage for the TA -- even with all the other sore spots.
05-23-2012 | 08:40 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
To un-Foxtrot this nightmare, we have to come to grips with the fact that our bargaining agent does NOT bargain for us. For far too many folks, that's a reality that is just too painful to accept. They invested too much trust and history to turn away now.
That doesn't mean we can't still fight. We should vote this horrific TA down by a huge margin. Then recall every rep who voted YES. Not because they didn't vote the way Carl wanted, but because they IGNORED the survey that they touted for so long. And as such, they ignored us. Then the new reps should immediately recall the MEC chairman and the entire MEC bureaucracy except the negotiating committee. Then we should give instructions to the negotiating committee to tell management we accept the TA with the following exceptions:
1. Keep the 255 hard cap on large RJ's
2. Keep the current profit sharing percentage.
3. If you don't agree, we'll let you know when the next opportunity is for us to send a negotiator to talk to you. Thank you, and enjoy flying those 50 seat RJ's.
That's my hope. It's still possible...but only if we vote this down.
Carl
05-23-2012 | 08:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
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From: 7ERB
I've been trying for the last four years brudda! I all but pleaded to this group to see through ALPA and their inability to do anything but sell more of our flying to the regionals due to their conflicted representation structure. We came close with our in-house union, but we didn't quite get there before openers were exchanged. As I've said before, once that happened, this is now ALPA's deal. Any attempt by another union to influence things would fail in the eyes of the NMB, and would provide ALPA with the perfect excuse of why they failed.
To un-Foxtrot this nightmare, we have to come to grips with the fact that our bargaining agent does NOT bargain for us. For far too many folks, that's a reality that is just too painful to accept. They invested too much trust and history to turn away now.
That doesn't mean we can't still fight. We should vote this horrific TA down by a huge margin. Then recall every rep who voted YES. Not because they didn't vote the way Carl wanted, but because they IGNORED the survey that they touted for so long. And as such, they ignored us. Then the new reps should immediately recall the MEC chairman and the entire MEC bureaucracy except the negotiating committee. Then we should give instructions to the negotiating committee to tell management we accept the TA with the following exceptions:
1. Keep the 255 hard cap on large RJ's
2. Keep the current profit sharing percentage.
3. If you don't agree, we'll let you know when the next opportunity is for us to send a negotiator to talk to you. Thank you, and enjoy flying those 50 seat RJ's.
That's my hope. It's still possible...but only if we vote this down.
Carl
To un-Foxtrot this nightmare, we have to come to grips with the fact that our bargaining agent does NOT bargain for us. For far too many folks, that's a reality that is just too painful to accept. They invested too much trust and history to turn away now.
That doesn't mean we can't still fight. We should vote this horrific TA down by a huge margin. Then recall every rep who voted YES. Not because they didn't vote the way Carl wanted, but because they IGNORED the survey that they touted for so long. And as such, they ignored us. Then the new reps should immediately recall the MEC chairman and the entire MEC bureaucracy except the negotiating committee. Then we should give instructions to the negotiating committee to tell management we accept the TA with the following exceptions:
1. Keep the 255 hard cap on large RJ's
2. Keep the current profit sharing percentage.
3. If you don't agree, we'll let you know when the next opportunity is for us to send a negotiator to talk to you. Thank you, and enjoy flying those 50 seat RJ's.
That's my hope. It's still possible...but only if we vote this down.
Carl
Carl, you need to rebut that sales letter that was cleverly written by King Midas on the other thread..
TEN
05-23-2012 | 08:53 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 65
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From: A320
I think this is part of what is frustrating, This doesn't take a whole lot of imagination:
* Delta management want's more cheap flying 70 seaters.
* We want to fly 70 seaters.
* Somehow there is also a provision in the TA that provides for 35% of new hires to come from DCI carriers.
Why not let the company have the 70 seaters operated under whatever DCI carriers workrules and pay they want for 3 years, then have those pilots and planes come under the Delta banner/certificate for bidding by all Delta pilots afterwards?
Then you would probably have a slam dunk passage for the TA -- even with all the other sore spots.
* Delta management want's more cheap flying 70 seaters.
* We want to fly 70 seaters.
* Somehow there is also a provision in the TA that provides for 35% of new hires to come from DCI carriers.
Why not let the company have the 70 seaters operated under whatever DCI carriers workrules and pay they want for 3 years, then have those pilots and planes come under the Delta banner/certificate for bidding by all Delta pilots afterwards?
Then you would probably have a slam dunk passage for the TA -- even with all the other sore spots.
It is time to bring our brand home, it's OUR brand.
Jevon, WHO are they?
05-23-2012 | 08:58 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,844
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From: 765-A
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