MrBojangles

well, I'm not former NWA so I don't know about that, nor should it even matter.

tsquare

The way I read it, the block hour ratios are based on the number of 76s that DCI gets. If they get all 233 of them, the mainline block hours must be 1.56 that of DCI. SO if the company then parked anything up to ans including the 767-300 domestic, they would still have to maintain that ratio, ergo, they would have to fly the remaining airplanes that much more. There would be a point of diminishing return for parking airframes, but the rations would still have to be honored. So let's say they parked all the 757s. Since we have the stupid seat productivity pay schemes.. I am sure guys would be displaced to smaller airframes, BUT.. those block hours would still have to be maintained as if the 757 were still on the property.. so guys would be flying the same airframes more. Since an airplane can only fly 24 hours in one day.. the math is self limiting. It makes furlough all but impossible.. (And the furlough protections wrt the 76 seaters is punative to the company anyway so I really don't see THAT as an issue anyway) Anyway.. just my opinion, but since Carl is the king of all this I am sure he will be along in a minute to explain where I am wrong.

1234

I am trying to figure something out here (sorry if this has been discussed previously, but it is hard to keep up here). We want to get paid as much as the SWA pilots get on their W2's. This TA puts us at their pay rates, however it will give us less W2's. Doesn't that mean that the SWA pilots actually work more that we do. Also, I did the calculations regarding number of pilots per aircraft (using data from airlinepilotcentral.com) and it looks like SWA staff's their a/c at a little less than 11 pilots per a/c while we are at a little more than 16 per a/c. If we had SWA work rules, wouldn't that be a loss of a few thousand pilot positions for us?

MrBojangles

different aircraft types require more crews per plane. maybe if 737's was all we flew it would be a level playing field.

scambo1

To compare SWA pilots, you have to do a little converting: Min day 6 hours, 1 trip for pay is 52 minutes, average month is 105 trips for pay.

They have premium open time - many pilots drop their whole schedule and just fly the premium open time.

There are some who work more than us, but depending upon how you define work more (more days per month or more hours per month), they work close to the same hours and fewer days than us. Their average work day is 9 hours between hotels.

They are still limited to 1000 hours per year. That equates to 82 hours per month.

tsquare

I think the likelihood of UCal having a contract before we even negotiate the follow on to THIS one is about... zero. There is no changing the minds of those on this board whose are already made up I didn't make up mine until I actually read the contract language... and there are some awesome protections in there. I have no ALPA connection, nor talking points, and like you I can live with a no vote. No fear spin.. no talking points, but I'll betcha that this contract is time sensitive for a reason, and that if this gets voted down, there will be a long time before the next one takes it's place. Like I said, I don't care either way, but it is sad what we will miss out on...

This place is depressing beyond words.

tsquare

You are an ignorant ass.

scambo1

I disagree:

My trips are almost all hard time. Other categories have credit time.

We have large enough fleets to get economies of scale, but Due to several factors, DAL chooses not to schedule us efficiently because it costs them nothing to use us inefficiently. If we had a 6 hour daily guarantee, that would be us forcing the company to schedule efficiently. As it is today, they only schedule us efficiently if it works for them.

Can you imagine keeping the same plane all day, same flt attendants all day, no airport sitarounds, and getting 6 plus hours every day of a trip minimum? DAL can do that today, they simply choose not to.

MrBojangles

i dont disagree with you, but how many crews do we have per 777 vs md88?

tsquare

Yet on Jan 1st, a DAL MD88 Captain will make more than a United 747 captain. It is funny that there was so much angst over a SWA guy making more than OUR whale drivers, but when it comes down to us making that, it is still not enough. When do you think that UAL or USAir will exceed those rates? Have either of those groups got a contract in the foreseeable future that will eclipse our rates? By the end of this, we will even have the amazing SWA in our rear view. It is a fact that this is industry leading in pay.

So do you think that management or the NMB (when and if the time comes) will look at out case for C2K + and say... well... yeah.. even though they turned down rates that were higher than the rest of the ENTIRE INDUSTRY.. we see their plight, and will give them what they asked for... really?


Or... do you think that we can use the same play book that the oh so great SWAPA ( you know.. the one that ya'll seem to think hung the moon?) has used for years and years and get a little bit at a time? No.. I see us voting this down, and doing the same old thing, the same old way... and it will take a few years to get back to where we are right now. Cure the "fear tactics" guys in 3...2...1........