Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-27-2012, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by newKnow
I picked up on that from his post. I don't discriminate in telling anyone that the North vs. South thing should be dead when it comes to this TA.
I'm tired of looking up what our pay rates were back then, or how many days we had off, or what was going to happen to the DC-9's. At NWA, we didn't really have long call or short call days. So what? Two weeks ago, I did. Does that mean I should just be that much more grateful?
We are all starting from the same point. If we really want to rehash who had what, we should do it after the TA is figured out, because IMO it's an unnecessary distraction.
I'm tired of looking up what our pay rates were back then, or how many days we had off, or what was going to happen to the DC-9's. At NWA, we didn't really have long call or short call days. So what? Two weeks ago, I did. Does that mean I should just be that much more grateful?
We are all starting from the same point. If we really want to rehash who had what, we should do it after the TA is figured out, because IMO it's an unnecessary distraction.
Then I guess we need to stop talking about restoration from BK. If our current PWA is the only reference we should be using, then that makes it pretty easy to make a decision.
Unfortunately, I don't know how I will vote yet.
05-27-2012, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I'm a bad example for you to use, because I have almost no DC and will not til around 2015 if memory serves. We did that at NWA so junior guys would have their retirements boosted by money from senior guys that I theoretically don't need as much since I have a frozen DB retirement.
But my point about this TA being cost neutral is that if you're going to crow about these pay raises (which are really little more than a COLA), you MUST look in the rest of the contract where that is being "funded." Loss of profit sharing, concessions on work rules to name a few. That's only fair to point out. Especially in the light that this TA is indeed cost neutral to Delta. We waited 10+ years and gave DALPA what they pleaded for...the opportunity to show us what they could do in the first Section 6 in a decade. DALPA was further bolstered by negotiating during a time of our airline's record profits. What did they bring us? A cost neutral TA.
That's a fact. Everyone must obviously use their own judgment on how to vote, but you're voting on a cost neutral TA.
Carl
But my point about this TA being cost neutral is that if you're going to crow about these pay raises (which are really little more than a COLA), you MUST look in the rest of the contract where that is being "funded." Loss of profit sharing, concessions on work rules to name a few. That's only fair to point out. Especially in the light that this TA is indeed cost neutral to Delta. We waited 10+ years and gave DALPA what they pleaded for...the opportunity to show us what they could do in the first Section 6 in a decade. DALPA was further bolstered by negotiating during a time of our airline's record profits. What did they bring us? A cost neutral TA.
That's a fact. Everyone must obviously use their own judgment on how to vote, but you're voting on a cost neutral TA.
Carl
05-27-2012, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by scambo1
A vote to outsource 70 more 76 seat jets is a vote to outsource 2 more Compass sized airlines...or its also a vote to outsource 35 737-800s (based on size and economics).
05-27-2012, 09:54 PM
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First time...
... I have been in the pilot lounges around the system and heard so much angst over this TA. In C2k there was some. In BK it was shock and fear.
Now it is real anger.
MEC paying FPL to folks to conjure up support.
Practice road shows and focus groups to fine tune the selling of the TA.
Alpha and Slow apparently have been hovering over keyboards here all day on the offensive.
You can see the miscalculation and smell the desperation in their increasingly strident message as they try to revise and spin the quotes from different LEC reps. Otherwise known as damage control.
All of this means one thing and one thing only. They do not believe, nor does this TA stand on its own merits. If it did, none of this would be happening.
This TA is going to get "BEATEN LIKE A DRUM" to quote Sir Charles.
Now it is real anger.
MEC paying FPL to folks to conjure up support.
Practice road shows and focus groups to fine tune the selling of the TA.
Alpha and Slow apparently have been hovering over keyboards here all day on the offensive.
You can see the miscalculation and smell the desperation in their increasingly strident message as they try to revise and spin the quotes from different LEC reps. Otherwise known as damage control.
All of this means one thing and one thing only. They do not believe, nor does this TA stand on its own merits. If it did, none of this would be happening.
This TA is going to get "BEATEN LIKE A DRUM" to quote Sir Charles.
05-27-2012, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 1234
Then I guess we need to stop talking about restoration from BK. If our current PWA is the only reference we should be using, then that makes it pretty easy to make a decision.
Unfortunately, I don't know how I will vote yet.
Unfortunately, I don't know how I will vote yet.
Believe it or not, I don't come on here to fight. (I do like to ask questions though.) If your post wasn't anything more than an observation, I apologize.
The part that got me was the NWA pilots being giddy about the 6 short calls part. But, in the big scheme of things, it's no biggie. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. Sorry again.
05-27-2012, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
1234 is a North guy, for what it's worth.
05-27-2012, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tsquare
Ouch............
05-27-2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
FYI, it's not really us increasing to 1.56 by way of growth, it's more DCI shrinking to their portion of the ratio. Upgrades and growth don't seem to be part of this at all...
05-27-2012, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by newKnow
Making your way through the thread a little slower than normal, huh ts?
05-27-2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by newKnow
1234,
Believe it or not, I don't come on here to fight. (I do like to ask questions though.) If your post wasn't anything more than an observation, I apologize.
The part that got me was the NWA pilots being giddy about the 6 short calls part. But, in the big scheme of things, it's no biggie. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. Sorry again.
Believe it or not, I don't come on here to fight. (I do like to ask questions though.) If your post wasn't anything more than an observation, I apologize.
The part that got me was the NWA pilots being giddy about the 6 short calls part. But, in the big scheme of things, it's no biggie. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. Sorry again.
Hey, I was one of those giddy reserve guys thinking that it was going to be a good deal. Then I realized that some months we had the same thing at NWA. Months when we flew a lot, I was only on short call maybe 2 times in a month because I always got assigned a trip prior to ever even getting on short call, or if I was on short call, I would get called out for a 5 day thus using up a bunch of my reserve days. It is funny how while something may be perceived as a good deal can turn out to be nothing different than what you have (the whole grass is greener on the other side).
I think that we are all getting a little punchy with the constant talking about this TA and constant arguing with each other. I guess that I really need to just step back, take and take a break from this place as it seems like 90% of the discussions aren't worth it.
Plus, there hasn't been any underboob for a long time.
Good night.
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