Originally Posted by TOGA LK (Post 1206773)

T, you of all pilots should know that pay comes and goes over time. I'm sure you are paid well above most 7ERA's. I live within my current means, plan to elevate that, however I refuse to sell the profession down the drain, especially for a short term, anemic gain.

Originally Posted by 4JetStream (Post 1206775)

I disagree because ALPA also represents many of the DCI carriers that are taking Delta flying. I dont hate ALPA, but I do believe they are operating under a conflict of interest. In fact, a class action lawsuit filed by ASA/Comair and was won and NOW mainline negotiators are present in DCI CBA's and [B]DCI negotiators take part in mainline negotiations for CBA's!

Once again, I dont Hate ALPA, but I refuse to support a corporate entity that claims to be neutral while working both for me and for my competition.

Originally Posted by sinca3 (Post 1206810)

Any APC peps heading to the road show tomorrow? I'll be the bald guy cowering in a corner with a flask...I hear it's BYOB

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1206535)

Still ain't gonna make me vote no though... sorry. A merger is gonna happen with or without us. I prefer to be paid a little up front, and a little when it happens. But apparently that's just me.

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 1206725)

At risk for being labeled as an ALPA hater, here goes. This looks like a classic sell job of a substandard TA in order to show membership and more importantly others that we were able to seal a deal "7 months ahead of the amendable date". It looks and sounds like a win until you scratch the surface and discover the NKR theory that many of us who've lived in the middle east have come to know and love. NKR stands for not quite right - spelling incorrect on purpose to further the absurdity.

This contract is concessionary and is letting the company get out of $1B in RJ200 engine overhauls etc, lets them buy 717s that look like they already bought and put off hiring to staff the retirements for yet another couple of years and has the added bonus of putting us at each others' throats and keeping us down trodden - have flown with too many CAs who think that 4% is a win and we don't deserve anything better.

We are the only employee group that isn't easy to replace (and I think will actually get harder to replace). ALPA is declaring victory on this and I think they may come to realize it's a Pyrrhic victory. They supposedly heard us loud and clear on scope but let DPJ and RAH continue to flaunt our scope clause. They've kept the opener secret from the only group that cares - the membership and they didn't reach their own goals for pay - see TT's council 20 letter.

What did this TA accomplish for the pilots? We seem to have paid for almost every gain. That's not negotiation, that's being beaten like a b!tch.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1206707)

My guess is that Alpha does not plan for a displacement out of his equipment or home base :mad: EVERY SINGLE BID FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS :mad: like we do. His definition of trivial might be different if he was constantly evaluating a commute to reserve, going back to the schoolhouse & a 15% pay cut.

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1206791)

Voting no will sell this group short... way short.

I don't care how it goes either. I have lived well within my means for years. Debt is no problem. And my wife is cheap to a fault. I admire your conviction to "not sell the profession" down the drain, but I think it is tilting at windmills. This is industry leading..

But I'll tell ya what. At the end of this agreement, a 717 CA will make $195/hr. Currently a UAL 747 CA makes $190. Provide me with something that will convince me that UAL will have ANY contract before 2015 that will even beat THAT. Anything. Same with AMR/USAir, etc. You can't even cherry pick SWA at the end of this agreement, although I am sure they will probably eek out some small increase.. like they always have... but nothing to set the world on fire... and even so, I'll betcha that we jump them again in 3 short years...

Scope. Show me any of the other carriers (except SWA) that have better scope than what this will provide. And.... you cannot cherry pick CAL either, because they have no JCBA agreement, and the last I checked, the name on the corporate HQ said UAL. Until UAL actually negotiates for the CAL scope, you cannot say definitively that that is the standard, so you have to include UAL scope in those discussions.

Either way, show me any other carriers that have the protections that this TA has against furlough, and pump and dump...