Originally Posted by iaflyer (Post 1257404)

Everyone is getting wound up over 66 more airplanes. I like having more airplanes like the next guy, but Crew Resource and Network can barely decide if we're keeping the 19 DC-9s or not. They may have a "plan" for 2015, but it's written in stone just like the 2012 plan was (and changed) and the 2013 plan will be.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1257387)

Well AS is way over 66, and HA falls short of 60. Spirit does too.......

Originally Posted by flyBanana (Post 1257045)

This summer we are 300 fat, next summer we will be about 100 fat. Possible hiring in late 2013 or early 2014.

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1257370)

So give me one example of any contract that guarantees any aircraft will be growth.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1257387)

Well AS is way over 66, and HA falls short of 60. Spirit does too.......

Originally Posted by iaflyer (Post 1257404)

Everyone is getting wound up over 66 more airplanes. I like having more airplanes like the next guy, but Crew Resource and Network can barely decide if we're keeping the 19 DC-9s or not. They may have a "plan" for 2015, but it's written in stone just like the 2012 plan was (and changed) and the 2013 plan will be.

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1257366)

We have a good scope clause right now.. the best in the legacy carriers (if you think UCAL is gonna put the genie back in the bottle, it will cost them BIG bucks)

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1257415)

Well, ours does guarantee DCI the right to grow from 255 jumbo RJs to 325. So I'd say ours.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1257400)

The closest I could come to guessing was Frontier? Srsly? Now you could get to that figure with a literally unlimited combination if you use multipile airlines/fragmentations but HI is too small and AS is too big, VX too small and JB too big. SO what kind of wildcard scenario would it take to add 66 planes from other airline(s)?

Originally Posted by 76drvr (Post 1257408)

Absent the critical component, the pilot contract, which the company just confirmed, this refleeting wouldn't have happened. Thank goodness most of the Delta pilots didn't have tin hats on, there never is guaranteed growth in any CBA. The contracts can however create the environment for growth, which this one did. Most of us saw that and the reps had the courage to make the right call.

Keep the "what other airline" cartoon stuff out of it. The company had to acquire 717s or 319 for the Delta pilots with this CBA not some future JCBA, in order to execute on its refleeting plan, which included a rapid and massive reductions of DCI jets in.

With 796 mainline aircraft, the company could have been authorized 240 76-seat jets, thanks to this new contract, they'll only get 223.

Originally Posted by 76drvr (Post 1257419)

Could you point to the language that "guarantees" RJ growth.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1257415)

Well, ours does guarantee DCI the right to grow from 255 jumbo RJs to 325. So I'd say ours.

Originally Posted by 76drvr (Post 1257419)

Glad to see that our CBA did limit the number of possible super jumbo 76-seat aircraft and put a limit on the number of 70-seat aircraft. Also good to see that this SEC filing confirms what most Delta pilots understood, we got superior scope and mainline is going to grow thanks to this new contract. Delta pilots will now see a larger share of Delta brand flying, thanks to the pilots who actually understood the dynamics of our scope language.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1257415)

Great reporting by the way. Curious about the 2013-2014 hiring.



Well, ours does guarantee DCI the right to grow from 255 jumbo RJs to 325. So I'd say ours.




Ah, but a merger allows you to do different things with different fleets. After all today we don't have PMDAL plus a PMNWA fleet. You could merge with Alaska, drop their 734s, trade in their 739s, add their 739ER order to ours post trade in, drop something we don't want to keep on our side, etc.

It's one way to get to 796 airplanes with no hiring needed until late 2013 to 2014 (which is what I heard from two separate LCA this week so it's being repeated*).

To use a SWA analogy, there are lots of fun ways to skin a cat, but...



circle gets the square.



*I did also listened in on a conversation a week ago about whether we'd be hiring. The management pilot said simply we're taking steps to move in that direction. for whatever that's worth.