Originally Posted by johnso29

I came from a regional. I'll take our current work rules over that anyday.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

A lot of guys feel powerless, have zero confidence their union will fix anything and yet soldier on hoping for a better alternative to come along. On time/completion performance may or may not suffer.

Then as you say, we are right back in contract negotiations again. The company will say they are on the verge of ordering some wide bodies (RA spotted in Toulouse)...the only way they can pull it off economically is trading in more 50's for some mainlines sized RJ's (outsourced to the regionals). ALPA sells the HE11 out of hit and here we go again.....wash, rinse, repeat. The career we call airline pilot stagnates another decade (preventing some from ever upgrading) unless we change our bargaining agent. Forget the idea of changing the fortress we call ALPA. Most have given up hope on that as ALPA continues to flaunt their power and become even more impervious to change.

Guys already in the left seat have less heartburn (except for Carl ) and just go for the cash. Can't really blame them....it's human nature. Anyone who is an FO that buys off on the fervent sales pitch continues to shoot him/herself in the foot. This will become even more apparent as the full extent of the fire sale we just had kicks in. I have to laugh every time I read the weekly updates with not one word of hiring (like it's a dirty word now). Quite a switch from what we were hearing leading up to C2012. And please don't tell me its due to the economy changing (it has actually gotten better) or more military guys coming back than planned. As someone said earlier those stats just don't add up.

Originally Posted by capncrunch

If we keep up these concessionary contracts you'll have the same as you did before.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

Why move back closer to that then? Hold the line.

Originally Posted by capncrunch

If we keep up these concessionary contracts you'll have the same as you did before.

Originally Posted by johnso29

I don't think we moved backwards. IMO the ALV+15 issue is being blown way out of proportion. But as I've said before, only time will tell.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Delta is like a elephant. They never forget so yes they hold long grudges. The A321 rumors are just that. The company has stated they want 30 to 40 more narrow body aircraft to augment the order for the 900's. That could be more 900's or A321's. One way or another you are going to hear about both aircraft as they are played against each other. No real new news here. What is new however is the discussion of some bridge widebody aircraft. The company originally said they were happy with the WB fleet and they would place a WB order for aircraft this year however it would be for mostly replacement aircraft after 2017. They are now hinting at a bridge order for 10 to 15 widebodies for near term delivery that would be growth aircraft. They are talking 777 or A330. I suspect whoever offers the best deal will get the contract for both orders. The A330 has had a recent gross weight increase which makes it a more attractive to Delta then in the past.
Going against Alaska in SEA I suspect is not going to happen. We don't have any gate space on LAX or SEA. If they add some more international in SEA then gates will be really tight. The same applies in LAX and contrary to what has been posted here Alaska is not using are gates in LA. They swapped the gates they had in LA to move over to terminal 6 to co locate with Delta but the additional gates gained in 6 belong to them. We can put some pressure on them with bigger aircraft but any route we go head to head on with them becomes a large money loser for both sides. Alaska has deep pockets and a long battle could happen. I think RA will reach a mutual agreement with them instead of going that route.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry

Depends on your frame of reference I guess. Net gains and all that. By blindly assuming that we'll sell out on scope again isn't helping to manage expectations in the right way. Why would anyone expend precious Cheerios calories on critical thinking if some crew room blowhard just assumes that we'll sell out for some new wide bodies? Frankly I'd rather be an RJ Captain for Delta than to ever be a 747 FO. I certainly didn't vote on anything to get us into this mess, but I'm happy my vote has resulted in 2 quarters of DCI shrinkage. It has nothing to do with bargaining agent. It has everything to do with those who follow the Delta Military chain of command and who are too apathetic to have a picture bigger than what their 4 year old puts on the fridge at home.

How many did you expect to hire by now? 150? 200? Strange. We got 120 Mil leaves back. That's just about close enough isn't it?

Fix the apathy, fix the culture. Don't put words in everyone's mouth. We will continue the trend of shrinking DCI.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

Sorry friend but you will never convince me that breathing new life into outsourced flying, making it viable again (we all know from many mouths, including managements own, the 50 seaters were dying on the vine and are not economical with today's fuel prices) was a good idea. Drop the management/Ford Harrison/DALPA talking points and face reality. We were on the verge of letting RJ flying snuff itself out and then gave it new life by allowing a bunch of them to be flown not by Delta pilots.

You know that saying...those who fail to learn from history....repeat it? Prior to C2012 hurry, hurry, rush sales job...."fleeting opportunity" nonsense the union said "Not one more pound, not one more seat". Lies, lies and more damm lies. It will happen again. Lee Moak is brash enough to tell you to your face "Outsourced RJ's are good for Delta Pilots in the overall scheme of things blah blah blah". Go ask him. He honestly believes it and those who filled his DALPA spot. And the insanity continues.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry

The ALV+15 thing enhances seniority on RES. The big mean 9 day will now go to the junior pilot, even if it would have otherwise gone to the senior guy because the junior guy had a couple hours more credit. In the eyes of some, it wasn't a concession, it's what the pilots asked for.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry

The CRJ-700 and CRJ-900 and the E-170 and the E-175 weren't about to "snuff themselves out". Where did you get that idea? The 50s were dead, I agree.

It's not talking points it's my own independent analysis. You also have little regard for the actual timeline of events that were leading up to the 717 and CRJ return deal. Do you think Boeing and Bombardier just woke up 2 weeks before the deal was done and decided to wheel and deal some airplanes? These are multi-million dollar assets not tied to a pilot working agreement.

That said, if the company had been snubbed on the PWA, it's my opinion that we'd still be negotiating, and they'd be hanging new motors on CRJs.

I don't care what Lee Moak says - he works for me. And yes, outsourced RJs are good for me - again - all independent analysis. Not talking points. Did you miss the part just 2 hours ago where I said ALPA wasn't representing my interests? Sounds like you're the one with the broken record issue.