That's not what I said -

I'm talking about pay with the door being closed vs beacon vs GPS out or whatever. You were saying "If we get door pay I can assure you the flight attendants will get the same." We do different jobs and just because WE might want to get paid when the door closes doesn't mean they need to be.

I don't work for ALPA in any capacity. The only ALPA work I have done in my entire career was strike coordinator for the area where I live back in 01. I am way to lazy and could not afford to take the cut in pay they do to consider ALPA work. I am just thankful some are willing to make the sacrifice for me. Also my posts did not convey what you say. My posts only convey how I view management when they look at cost items we might want. I have no doubt management has to consider all the effects of every item. If they don't they are very bad at the job they do. I don't speak for ALPA in any way and have never had a single communication from ALPA asking me to post anything on any forum.
Again I ask you to produce any statement from the union.
My bet is also still good on flight pay loss if you want to put some money on your facts!

Carl, Within minutes of signing the last contract the company announced that the July raise was being increased to match the pilot raise. They also announced a unexpected raise on 1 Jan tied into reducing the profit sharing for all employees. Within a week of the contract being signed they announced increased vacation and training pay, increased per diem among other items for the FA's.
In the past many items have been given to others once we got them. When we finally got the jumpseat the flight attendants were given the jumpseat days later. When we won a grievance on pass charges and the company had to refund large amounts to many pilots they gave the same refund to all employees. I could go on and on. Every contract that I have been involved with at Delta as a pilot carried down in some form or another to non pilots. If you believe otherwise then you don't know the history of the airline.

PD didn't say that you did. Why do you continue this constant straw man method of debating? It makes you look very weak and incapable of direct conversation.

They convey your exact beliefs sailingfun. You look silly with this attempt at trying to portray yourself as being on the side of line pilots. You are not. You speak the exact beliefs of senior level management regarding labor.

You just speak the exact same way. Coincidence?

Got to scrub your words very closely. So DALPA can count on you to spread the exact gospel of DALPA/management...but as long as they've never asked you to do so on an Internet forum, you're not lying right?

Carl

Not sure if this has already been said, but the latest Trim Tab says the AE results should be out by close of business Wednesday. Ready or not!:eek:

I'm sure you could go on and on, but it's not responsive. Where is this provision in writing? It can't be contractual because it's not in ours and the FA's don't have one. It's not in the FA's company manual. Where is it?

That's why I call it a verbal myth...because it is. The company does so at its sole discretion. So why do you and our union leadership use this sham as a bludgeon to silence line pilots who want our union to demand more than COLA increases? Why would you give such a discretionary tactic by management any credence whatsoever?

Carl

Which means all of us junior guys are going to be checking Icrew all morning! Look at BID>AE>preferences and if its open again look at most future category!

That is why the best thing that could ever happen for the pilot group is for all the other work groups to unionize. If we were smart we would all donate time and money for the next AFA drive.

Why would we bother to do that Rocky? This "me too" policy is entirely discretionary by management. They could choose to continue it after the FA's unionize, or stop it entirely before they unionize.

It's only power lies in how many people buy off on it as tactic to limit the pay of another employee group. Sailingfun is a true believer, but my hope is that most line pilots aren't as naive...or duplicitous.

Carl

Carl, We once had a similar discussion and disagreement on what a arbitrator would and should consider in a SLI much like what management considers when looking at pilot contractual improvements. How did that turn out for you?