Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Ok, so who messed up our ability to ride in the back on an intl MIL ferry back to base?

As a result, we had to have transportation to the layover, the hotel, and then we bumped 2 paying pax off of a full regular intl flight this morning since it is now the charter dept policy to not let us ride in the back on an empty airplane. Oh...except the FAs were deadheading on said empty airplane. Even the duty pilot and scheduling were dumbfounded...

I'm guessing I'll be seeing plenty of replays of the accident ya'll are talking about!

Sorry, I'm not getting what you're saying...partly due to the fact I'm not familiar with the policy.

You couldn't fly in the back of a mil charter, so you had to layover? Then you had to deadhead the next morning, but yet there were FAs deadheading on the mil charter? If they were DHing why weren't you DHing? Were you scheduled to DH on a mil charter? Maybe you were deviating from DH?

80ktsClamp

03-31-2013 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy (Post 1382944)

Correct, and yes I had to layover and dhd the next morning (despite being legal to do so, sched would not modify our rotations- but sched were ok with us deviating and riding on it). Yes, the FAs were dhding on the empty mil charter after having their schedules changed originally was planned to repo to another city instead of ATL). However, I could not deviate and ride on the mil charter due to said policy.

Brilliant, isn't it?

I sent in an FCR- I'm intrigued as to the response.

80ktsClamp

03-31-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy (Post 1382940)

I'd be curious to hear from an expert if this is just more gruesome to see than a bad ACL, but easier to recover from, or if it's worse in both ways.

What's your problem with ACL? When did he turn bad? :eek:

cni187

03-31-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1382917)

He was watching me make phone calls and would say every once in a while "wow this makes no sense... I don't get it." He didn't care as much as he was a commuter.

Both the charter coordinators refused to put our names on the Gen Dec, and I had caused about as much of a fuss as I was willing to do. So, I'll be putting that in my report. :)

Be forewarned, it is intl military charter policy to not allow crewmembers to ride in the back when empty unless you are scheduled to deadhead on that aircraft. I'll do my part in fighting the good fight, and hopefully others will as well. Sure would have been nice to both get home to my son early as well as save the company money.

This happened to me once when I was on a C-5 crew. We were carrying a load of cargo and troops for a certain user. We had a couple extra seats and some other mil people wanted to space a on our jet. Since it was what we called a SAAM or special assigned airlift mission then I, as the aircraft commander, couldn't release those seats unless I got the permission of the user, or charter. So whatever Mil entity paid for the charter has the final say on who can ride on their plane they paid for. I doubt it was a customs issue, just an issue of finding the user and getting permission to let you guys ride on it. Sounds as if the charter was put together with the FAs deadheading, meaning they already had permission to ride on the empty plane.

JungleBus

03-31-2013 07:42 PM

Hot Tip for those of you who live in MSP or find yourself there with wheels and some extra time on your hands:

Toured the 45th Parallel Distillery just across the river in New Richmond, WI yesterday. $5 for a tour and a tasting. Neat little operation. They produce their own Straight Bourbon, Straight Rye Whiskey, and high-end vodka from locally sourced grain under their own brand, as well as mid-priced gin and vodkas under the Midwest brand, and contract work for several Aquavits, flavored vodkas, and limoncellos/orangecellos. Tasting includes liberal portions of all of the above...bring a DD for maximum enjoyment!

http://www.45thparallelspirits.com/i...er-bourbon.jpg

hoserpilot

03-31-2013 08:15 PM

Wow. That broken leg was gruesome. The players reaction to sit down was probably the correct one. I know when I coached soccer and assisted with hockey we always had the players sit or skate away from the incident. This way the player in need could get help from a trainer without having to fight through a crowd.

SailorJerry

03-31-2013 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1382951)

What's your problem with ACL? When did he turn bad? :eek:

I think he was talking about the Anterior Cruciate Ligament. Not the kitten lover. =)

That leg break was nasty. Not the way I wanted to spend a van ride to DTW. It'll be a miracle if that kid can ever even walk straight again. Such a shame.

sailingfun

04-01-2013 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1382837)

It has nothing to do with the company. Its part of the contract with the military. No passengers other then authorized crew are allowed on the flights. The company until last summer could not even DH crews on those flights. They had to get permission from the military to allow DH for crew positioning. You also can't jumpseat or take jumpseaters on a mil charter be it the actual charter or a positioning a empty aircraft.

sailingfun

04-01-2013 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1382384)

Has anyone cyphered the total number of additional required staffing, if any, for DL WRT to the new rules?

The rules will be what they will be, but there are 2 different possibilities: keeping the current contractual 2/3/4 man block hour limits versus sliding that grid one hour forward WRT the FT/DT changes.

I really don't see much of an advantage to the company to push deeper into Europe, etc with the extra hour of 2 man ops if the no exceptions "must be legal at throttle up" concept remains part of the final rules. I do see the company pushing for relief for narrowbody ops though, particularly high cycle hub flying i.e. 717/88/320/etc. If a crew starts to overblock they can always replace them at a hub with minimal risk to the operation. Trying to get 8:01-8:59 2 man to Europe or back with varying headwinds (giggity), etc and a taxi out delay of as little as 1 minute up to 59 minutes would mean a messy cancellation/gate return and the real world would quickly outstrip the fancy spreadsheet benefits on paper.

Unless they overblocked to protect against that. But if they did that, they would eliminate the efficiencies they were trying to gain in the first place.

I assume the company will approach us for this, and I assume we will seriously consider giving them that concession. We will of course want "something" for it, but IMO since there is no way they will offer anything of equal or greater value (otherwise they gain nothing) we would be selling some degree of safety, even if its small, in exchange for something else. I hope we don't go down that road. Honestly, I hope the company doesn't even ask.

The current position of the company is that they will not approach us for any relief. There is no relief required however for domestic ops as nothing in the contract limits that flying to 8 hours.

sailingfun

04-01-2013 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1382917)

There was nothing the Captain could do. This is as I mentioned a policy and requirement of the military. They own the flight and cover insurance. There was a bulletin about this last summer. I am surprised crew scheds was not aware of it. The issue has come up over and over again on charter flights.

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